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    Thread: Guide to Tuning Boxes and Remaps

    1. #11

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      tadukuttan's Avatar
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      Excellent thread. Once you are done explaining remapping, I would also love to discuss possible power gains from both methods(tuning box Vs Remap), and by how much a tuning box would lag behind a remap?
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    2. #12
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      @ripper, Techie says that regular service centers cant detect tuning boxes, but if you give in a claim for warranty then they will do a full check, and possibly detect a tuning box. Atleast that is what I understood.

    3. #13

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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post18924.html#p18924
      srijit Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:09 pm[/url]]@ripper, Techie says that regular service centers cant detect tuning boxes, but if you give in a claim for warranty then they will do a full check, and possibly detect a tuning box. Atleast that is what I understood.
      Dont think that has happened here in India yet. And as for my Hyundai, I have never bothered to remove it from view or disconnect it, even before asking for warranty repairs.

      And of course, if the showrooms were so "smart", they would detect remaps as well.
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    4. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post18924.html#p18924
      srijit Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:56 pm[/url]]@ripper, Techie says that regular service centers cant detect tuning boxes, but if you give in a claim for warranty then they will do a full check, and possibly detect a tuning box. Atleast that is what I understood.
      They cannot do a full check .
      They do not have the equipment .
      They would have to fly down the diagnostics from their factory. considering, that the basic scanner in a service station costs around 1.5 to 3 lakhs, the sophisticated stuff probably costs 10-20 times that, or even more.
      I dont think any OEM will risk sending down one of those, for the monkeys in the SC to play with. They would rather take a hit on the warranty claim.
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      LOL. I am just telling you what I understand from his long posts.
      Does not mean that I am right. In fact, am glad to be wrong.

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      will answer some Queries first and then continue.

      well in India its a reality that even OEMs will have only one single piece at their respective factory. An open loop labcar costs an easy 1-2 crores depending on the level of equipment it comes with. and Closed loop Lab car is an easy 5 crores. the VIVA - virtual integrated vehicle analysis type closed loop labcars are 6+ crores. only the major league players will have it.

      but yes in europe where an entire fleet of taxi operator vehicles go in for a warranty claim, the european factories very well have these equipments. so its all luck basically.

      then @tadu
      i will explain remapping no problem. but your last Q how much a tuning box lags behind a remap depends on various factors will answer it with greater detail once i explain about remapping.

    7. #17
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      Hello Gearheads, Good Evening!
      A little bit...from my side..
      Tuning boxes are bolt-on devices that work by intercepting the signals between the ECU and the sensors to fool the ECU into altering the diesel fuel pressure in order to inject more fuel and therefore increase performance. A tuning box will only increase the amount of fuel that is added. However, because the tuning box is always fighting the ECU, the ECU will to some extent try to compensate for the increase in fuel that is caused by the tuning box. This is especially true of the latest Euro 4 and Euro 5 engines with very tight emission controls. Most of the time you will not get an even spread of power due to the delay in the tuning box circuitry processing sensor signals before they get to or come from the ECU. (Resulting in spikes in the power) With a remap you will have none of this trouble as the ECU is processing everything

      It is also impossible to remove the Engine limiters, Torque limiters, turbo limiters etc among other things with a tuning box. [See picture]A Tuning box will also provide you with uneven power again due to the delay in data speed. The end result is often inconsistent performance as shown in the picture, or sometimes no improvement in performance at all.

      An ecu remap on the other hand works in harmony with the engine and emissions control system. The maps are carefully optimized and rewritten in the engine control computer. Unlike the tuning box which only alters the amount of fuel, the ecu remap alters the turbo boost pressure, fuel injector duration, fuel timing, torque limiters and many other parameters, all of which can be optimized to give substantial increases in power and torque, smooth power delivery and consistent performance, with strict emissions compliance. Since no signals are intercepted, the ECU does not have to compensate for any abnormal readings and therefore the performance will be consistent. An ecu remap is therefore by far the best way to improve performance because most modern ECUs are too sensitive for a tuning box to successfully alter the behavior of the fuel system without the ECU compensating for it.

      Another problem with tuning boxes is that they are likely to cause the ECU to log DTCs (fault codes) as the fuel pressure is not what the ECU is expecting. Even if you remove the tuning box, the DTCs may still be present. These DTCs are very confusing to any garage or workshop undertaking any service work or diagnostics and may result in unnecessary repair work being carried out. An ecu remap does not affect any of the diagnostics systems and the ECU will only log a DTC if there is a genuine fault.

      SUMMARY -
      A tuning box may be cheaper, but it will never be as good as a fully optimized ECU REMAP!
      it is my personal perception!!
      Regards,
      Sujay
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    8. #18
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      Agreed about the tuning box being inferior. I have used both and prefer the remap for performance. but, when it comes to resale, The tuning box claws back the advantage.
      If a company ever starts buying back their remaps or gives a substantial cut in the price for another remap for when you buy a new car, I'd wholeheartedly recommend them.
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      WinOLS again!! most of the guys use this software huh.

      checksum calculation? / correction?

      reading the maps from the vehicle is easy if you have the required tools and hardware/software combo. but what about the blue print of the components used in the engine? simple example. the turbo is meant for 1.2bar only. max overbar pressure. suppose the remapper set it as 1.4bar? ...........??

      or say rail pressure sensor is one which senses max 1500bar. what if its set for 1800Bar . in the HEX world its just a hexadecimal number...

      will continue with the guide in a short while.

      @ ripper and @sujay

      Remaps will throw warranty right out of the window right?? invisible remapping doesnot exist!!

      and suppose a simple power failure happens while remapping is going on. or a checksum miscalculation happens and the eCU finds out the checksum is different!..

      based on how the OEM designed it, the ECU might run wil MIL,

      run in limp home mode.

      get locked or heck go into self destruct mode ( i meant permanent lock or corruption)!!

      so the base Q is a Remap worth it for stage 1 mod on a stock car with no change in hardware!! ?

    10. #20
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      So remapping?

      the answer to this Q varies from tuner to tuner. i will answer this Q from the point of view of an engineer.

      before answering this Q we have to go through the basics of what happens in the ECM. this part of the report is more interesting so will not be goin too much technical. very simple ground level info only.

      simple way to understand the ECM is as a control system , a closed loop one.

      as any control system it has got inputs - sensors , outputs -actuators.
      in between there is a small microchip which collects input data and process them based on algorithms and look up tables.

      the look -up table is known as the MAP or lets just out it as for a given condition how much fuel to inject to produce required torque and hence calculate the PWM to be given to injectors.

      but these latest CRS systems have many other look up tables to keep in the loop like smoke control, emission control, active surge damping etc. ( all these are important ..if not followed your car will be short lived thats all )

      now all this algorithms are written in C-language usually, then linked and finally a dumpable code .HEX type of file is genrated from SWB ( software builder which has got DAMOS and A2l generation capabilities )

      the sensor are taken as inputs by the ECM/ECU in form of messages denoted as _msg in the ECU doamin.

      then there are points where the ECU makes or takes a measure of the message whether it is right or not..this is denoted as Measuring Point or _mp .

      then comes the calibration parameters, these are the parameters that the humans can change in the code so as to meet new features, limitations, etc. they are denoted as _C in the ".C ' files.

      now for each and everything there is a .c file. for Main injection, one is present, for pilot 1,2,3 etc. so all these files and files related to everything else..gerabox, Engine position management, etc. is integrated during SWB and then a Hex file is got.

      now on this HEX file, we have to load a DCM file - Data calibration management file. this file has got the intialisation values for all the _C parameters.

      based on the above DCM loaded Hex file, another HEX file is generated. which is the one thats gets flashed in the ECU, the ECU always does a Checksum calculation and matching with the ECU data( HEX file in this case) one mismatch and lets just say you should be worried!! no more comments.

      then so the answer to remapping?

      any change done to even one _C parameter at code level or say a hex value at a certain adress line in the HEX file can be said as a remapping.

      so remapping is defined!!

      now how to go about a remap? that part i will put up in a while. till then happy reading..

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