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    Thread: Guide to Tuning Boxes and Remaps

    1. #21
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      Remapping as far as it is concerned for guys like me who worked with OEMs. its changing specific .C files ( we add certain _msg if new sensors are added or just change the values of _C parameters ) and create a new HEX file and then loading the recommended DCM file which will ahve new setting for calibration parameters which are meant to have setting that improve the performance of the engine based on Customer request.

      then run this new HEX in a Closed loop VIVA lab car and then monitor A-Z for 1000 Start and driving cycles together with temperature profile testing after keeping the ECU in temperature chamber.
      once this is done , the eCU is sent for series production with this NEW HEX file inside it.
      this is how OEMs Remap.

      tuner remapping is like an easy way to do the change to all parameters by studying the END product of the ECM software life cycle. based on the 1000s of .C individual files, a HEX file is generated .

      HEX file represents the whole thing. it has got HEX values written at address lines which start from 0000H to FFFFH ( this is a typical example in reality its much more complex) so from address 0000H to 0056H might be for example injection limiter or any one parameter the map-location that is the term for finding the meaning of the data at given address lines. so a tuner reads the HEX file which came inside the ECU of the car, changes it ( usually .HEX , .bin, ORI file format etc ate there) and then writes the same into the ECU inside the CAR. as an Engineer all i can say is when a tuner knows the exact tolerance ranges of all the components that would get modified behavior due to the remap, then only he should remap. trial and error remapping is asking for trouble IMHO.


      if the values are altered and then a corresponding checksum is calculated and both the new file is written to ECU and the checksum in the ECU is updated, once the start up diagnosis happens the eCU checks for concurrency between memory in flash and memory in eeprom! if a mismatch is there. then start again!! Good luck!

      so what is mentioned above is how tuners do it. they use software like WinOLS, then Tuenr PRO, Tactrix ECU flasher KWP2000 flashers etc to read the HEX files ( any HEX editor will work! ) then write this back into the ECU and take care about the Checksum. thats about it.

      so then remapping what types??

      well this also depends on the approach.

      before i explain about remapping one word of advice . Have a SPARE ECU. this is one step that can always bail you out should something go wrong. but then again anything electronic in the car can go for a toss if the value fed is wrong to a particular actuator!!

      in car remapping is done through the use of KWP2000 ( a communication protocol used for automobile ECU) connected to the OBD2 port.

      CAN Programming can also be done. but a simple problem Vector tools are obscenely expensive a simple CAN CARD can cost 3-5 lakh rupees.

      this is a risky one as one hiccup in car power level or mistaken flip of switch of key from batter y to ignition position etc, or even a problem in the laptop used like a crash for example can land you with a locked eCU or worse a bust one!!.

      then there is chiptuning, here the EEPROM from the PCB of the ECU is taken out and reprogrammed or atleast the eCU is taken out of the vehicle and using a LAB power supply hooked up and then the reprogramming is done.!!

      the thing with Remapping is that.

      you play GOD more or less. you get to control almost everything . things you should control and things you should not control also!! this makes remapping all the more risky!! so always have that bloddy spare ECU with you!!!

      then the most advanced one is the live remapping, this is done with the use of ECU emulators which will have a running car hooked onto a dyno and remapping can be done in real time when the car is running in dyno to achieve optimum results.

      but now a days the CRS systems are so complex the Emulator will have to emulate a Body control MOdule. which is like asking for trouble. this method is done ,more or less on gasoline vehicles!! . since the system is more simple there.

      ok then stage1, stag2..stage x..??

      stage 1 remapping doesnt warrant any change in hardware more or less a stcock car can be used. stage 2 onwards hardware upgrades are required.

      a simple problem with HEX files is that eveyrhting is in HEX format and based on the starting adress and ending address a HEX table is formed which controls a particular parameter, torque limiter, gearbox torque limiter etc.

      if the tuner sets any one parameter at a value which is dangerous to the component it is intended for , then trouble!!

      simple example is in laura and BMW 5 series remapping with DSG gearbox , the DSG BOX MAP is best left untouched, since it changes or shifts based on the torque output from the engine. so what happens is though after a remap more power is produced , the DSG box will shift up much earlier!! so what a tuner does is he plays with the DSG map making it shift up at a higher torque rating! this will simply lead to DSG box going Bust earlier!! ( simply put a lot of R&D had gone into those settings so that the DSG Box lasts!!)

      here a hell lot of freedom is available, but its more or less hell risky also!! turbo tuning with VGT turbos is a pain altogether unless you are well versed in the particular algorithm that the VGT is controlled through, the MAP should not be touched!!

      the problem with the re-mapping is that the base map which the tuner in europe work on is based on the european maps. the indian maps are always different. the main changes coming in the turbo tuning, EGR tuning, and also when injector and rail pressure mappings are altered, the first thing to be made sure is that the injectors and rail can take that kind of abuse, the OEMs test the inejctors with specific injector duty cycles which are never agressive in nature since injectors and rail are NOT REGULAR changed items while running. its supposed to last as long as the engine.

      now suppose the normal duty cycle is 5
      60% max and 20% min for a set rail pressure. of min 800BAR and max 1500bar!. 70% duty cycle at 1500bar is already bad on the injector . but when the rail pressure changes to 1600bar and duty cycle is changed to 70%?

      the stress on the injectors are increased exponentially, it can give irratic behaviour.

      in case of tuning boxes, there is no mixed trouble like this. the tuning boxes cannot alter what is inside the ECM hence tuning BOX is a reasonably logical safe bet for a stock car. but when bigger inejctors are swapped on, turbo upgrade etc. remapping is the way to go. but a small thing to be kept in mind is .

      FIND out how much the internals of an engine take and then only go ahead with remapping!! . remapping is boundless it can be used to create hell lot of power gain ( if the internal cant handle it, the engine will be shortlived!!)

      mainly injectors, fuel metering system, turbo boost pressure, rail , High pressure pump, Glow control and EGR control is remapped while a remapping is done.

      IMHO remapping should be done only when one wishes to go for real deal as in hardware upgrade of injectors, turbo , pump etc. ( performance events like drags, track use, rally use etc.)

      for normal street use tunin boxes are more safer bet.

      so as can be clearly seen Remapping is more better for better power gain!. but unless done properly its hell dangerous. has the potential to DESTROY!!!

      tuning on the other hand has got the ECM left untouched and also has an inbuilt safety bypass whould the box screw up, it gets bypassed and ECU does all the work. in remapping, nothing doing! the remapper should ensure all the safety measures are left untouched or changed properly.

      steps to be followed for Box is.

      if IM type available. Go for it. Deal closed. use better filter if needed.

      RPM type. use with caution never exceed the Box manufacturer limits. as in put jumpers to increase rail pressure even more!! not a good idea. latest gen are IM types so more or less. thats said and done.

      Remapping.

      be ready with Sapre ECU atleast and always get a GOOD MAP file. do not go for Clone tools!!! ( buy original software!! ) its hell expensive but well worth the investment. then comes the blue printing. get the service manual of the vehilce and check how much abuse all components can take!!.

      this step is really necessary if you wish to go the full deal.
      get the Software Docu for the ECU. how you get it is left to you!!! . it will only help!.

      and make sure that remapping is done keeping in knowledge the upper limits of each of the Maps. and where ever possible. try to get the latest software for the Engine. its a known fact that OEMS often update MAPS on the vehicles while service happens. so keep all in mind.

      advantages and disadvanatages are there on both sides. its the Use and application and GREED!! that tilts the scale to either side!!. my report is more or less over. feel free to ask Qs will answer to the best of my knowledge. i have kept the real deal with OEM tunign and Remapping due to obvious reasons!! but what tuners do is more or less what i have explained.


      thanks to everyone for their patience and acceptance of this report

      reagrds,

      Techie

    2. #22
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      KWP2000 doesnt work with every car.
      Do you have any idea what protocol the Swift uses?
      I've tried pretty much everything and come up blank.
      Please subscribe to the #Cochin hashtag for notifications on the Cochin meets.

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post18868.html#p18868
      Techie Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:31 am[/url]]
      but the main two secondary problems associated with tuning box is smoke and oil usage. its a nice idea to use synthetic oil n change every 5k or use a very good oil and change every 5k kms.
      Techie, what's the reason for the frequent oil changes ? Does the oil usage go up with the box ?
      ~ 2009 Punto E Pk Multijet

    4. #24
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      Oil usage does not go up. oil becomes thick and black very soon. obviously you are feeding in more fuel into the cylinder, oil usage will definitely be more!! and even for a non-boxed car its a good idea to change oil every 5K if you use mineral oil! . using a box does make life a bit more intense for the engine . No pain no gain..

      @ripper what you want to do? just read the OBD II port and try to clear the DTC or Read the HEX file from your remapped ECU?
      KWP2000 is old gen it works only on Gen 1 CRS . Gen 2 CRS is supported by galletto 1250 , 1260 , CMDTEC etc. but these are for remapping..
      just reading the OBD II port would need CAN based tools . which are not cost friendly :!:

      and what about your EGT? where do you measure it at inlet to turbo? ( a better approach but risky! if the guage goes intot he turbo...then kaboom!! ) inlet side anything above 800 degree C ( some say 830 also , i dont think it matters in indian conditions!! ) is goin to trouble zone for turbo!

      at outlet side anything 650+ is also trouble!! check em and also if you are in trouble zone then retard the injection timing!!

      i think swift has only pilot and main. no post 2 Injection right? do not try to program POI2 to get more torque - if the marelli guys have excluded POI2 then it must be for a reason. obviously in the MAP it might be there. with 00 values or dead flat map curves but unless you are sure there is no problem do not try to add extra POI2. it might become a handfull!!

    5. #25
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      I need to clear DTCs. Not looking to do anything else.
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    6. #26
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      If all you need to do is read basic params from the OBDII port, devices that support CAN are available at the 50$ level. But these things don't work with certain ECUs, like ripper found out. CAN based programming tools can be inexpensive as well. See the Hondata FlashPRO at $695. But that's the petrol world.

      My point is that it's not the protocols that make these tools expensive. It's simple exclusivity and lack of competition.
      Thou shalt always seek the redline.

    7. #27
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      @ripper why reset the DTC? i hope you reset them after getting them checked! try the below mentioned tool. just google it.
      U480 OBD2 EOBD +CAN-BUS Protocol fault Code Scanner/ Reader

      by now you should probably be having the list of sensors used in the car. keep an eye on the RPS its bound to be freak expensive if the unit is integrated with the rail.

    8. #28
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      He's trying to disable EGR. He hasn't been successful so far without causing a DTC. So he's trying to find something that'll read codes so he'll know when something other than the EGR is causing a DTC.
      Thou shalt always seek the redline.

    9. #29
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      why disable EGR? tadu already tried it out and he took it off!! why loose out on top end?

      EGR does reduce temp. inside combustion chamber!!
      at full load anyways EGR stays closed!! so it doesnt hinder at full load! only at part load and low end
      EGR is used.
      agreed ripper has a remapped car.
      while remapping he can increase the turbo boost! but then again without an intercooler upgrade! trouble is around the corner!!

      why all this hungama! and a simple Q....
      in the swift ORI file if it has an electronic EGR then for sure an EGR map is bound to be there. why not change that map?!. if its a mechanical EGR then Block it! still IMHO. Its not a good idea!!

    10. #30
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      Techie , I assume the Pete's box is a IM type box - is that correct ?

      Another question. In several cases OEMs have the same engine running different power/torque ratings. For example, the 1.3 MJD runs 190Nm/75 bhp on the swift but but 200Nm/86 bhp on the Linea/Manza.

      How do the OEMs achieve this ? Is the principle the same as the IM type box - open the injectors for a longer duration and let in more fuel , thereby allowing the same engine to have different specs ?
      ~ 2009 Punto E Pk Multijet

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