Engine transplant- Why the fuss?

[Ripper]

Saw a thread on team bhp about a bike being built with a verna CRDi engine, and that got me wondering.
If a bike can be built with a crazy heart like that, whats stopping us from transplanting a verna engine into a swift?
Not that I'm going to do it, but if I could get an idea of how to go about it.........

Whats the big deal about custom engine mounts?
I'd love to have the chassis, suspsension and steering of the swift combined with the hyundai's 1.5CDRI VGT gem.

[Frankenstein]

Ripper superb idea.

Verna engine + swift dynamics should do wonders.

I had the same idea albeit different vehicles and was mocked by every one.

Critics might argue ,getz crdi has the same engine,why not buy a used getz and mod the suspension.

There are 3 main problems.

First and foremost is sourcing a verna engine

second ,how to go about he mod

3rd is a mechanic who can follow our instructions.

I have seen innova,skoda fabia, engines in the used market . Verna is like difficult to find .This project may cost any where between 1.5 to 2 lac.

[Ripper]

Where there is a will, there is a way. Engine can be found. The crazy bike maker in haridwar found one. We could too. Vernas crash all the time. Finding an engine wont be impossible. Anyways, its just a hypothetical question. I dont think its likely that I'll ever do it. I would just like to know why its a big deal, making custom engine mounts. Wouldnt it be easier than making an entirely new chassis and suspension set up from scratch?

[mclaren1885]

I have seen quite a few builds with engine transplants. Usual hurdles faced are:

1. Fabricating *strong* engine mounts. For eg, Jays Zen with Honda 1.5 engine needed the engine mounts to be changed because they had gone weak. Not many people can do this. However, I have seen a few builds which have had no issues. Its easiest for the Honda's because you get ready made polyurethane bushes, even mounts for some cars.

2. Mating the gearbox. The tunnel where the gearbox sits is not the same for different gearboxes. So that means you might have to cut/weld the chassis to make the gearbox sit. Not many prefer that?

3. Getting the wiring right. Usually if you mess up the wiring during an engine transplant it is very tough to figure out the source of the problem. A friend had a nightmare with his Zen running a Esteem engine. He had to nearly replace every sensor and eventually the whole wiring harness to figure out where exactly the issue was.

4. I am told that some engine and gearboxes work with the same set instrument cluster provided by the company. That is, the lights on the dash etc are configured to particular sensors etc. Eg: Skoda RS. There was a guy who was selling an RS engine in one of the showrooms in North East. He told me that the engine will have to be bought with the speedo console for it to work. Not sure if this holds true for the Verna. So you might want to check on that. Last thing you would want to do is change the dash too.

5. Then you need to find out if the Swift driveshafts can be mated to the Verna's engine, if they can handle the additional torque. Or if Verna driveshafts can fit.

6. If either of the vehicles have ABS/Airbags it will only complicate matters.

7. Size of the engine and the size of the engine bay you will be fitting will have to measured to exact dimensions. You wouldn't want your engine sitting too low or finding out that the bay is too small to fit the engine and its components.

8. Once you figure all this out, you then have issue with the RTO dudes. If you are caught your car will be seized.

Thats all I can think of for now. Will add more as I recollect.

Personally, is it worth the risk? I don't think so.

[Frankenstein]

Engine bay sitting low can be managed with some alterations on the engine mounts.

If the new gearbox cannot be used ,we can use a adaptor plate.

Engine mounts,if the mounts have the right type of rubber quality it wont be a problem.

Instrument cluster problem ,ecu should be sourced along with the engine with wiring harness too.

All in all it is not worth ,better to get the getz crdi and spend 50 to 60k in suspension and enjoy trouble free driving.

[MechaniX]

- Engine mount is probably trivial of the problems here.
- Building a reliable car would probably need beefing up everything to match the output of the new engine.
- In such swaps, studying cars that use same chassis but different engines should give an Idea.
- From what I have researched cars running different(say one is v4 and other is v6) output engines on the same chassis have almost everything different.

[Ripper]

MechaniX:
beefing up what? How? would you please give us some examples?
For eg- The Swift D Driveshafts could probably take the Verna's output.
The chassis/monocoque, and the suspension are more than upto it.
But the clutch and gearbox wont.
would it be easier to use the verna gearbox and clutch then?

[shyam]

Ripper if i am right the engine, gearbox and the clutch assembly all of them come together with the engine itself in the 1.5L Crdi

[mclaren1885]

For eg- The Swift D Driveshafts could probably take the Verna's output.

I doubt that, the Verna engine has far too much torque and if you mod it I am not too sure the driveshafts can hold that much torque. Besides you will have to check if you can retain the Switfs driveshafts with the Verna engine. The mounts and the lengths might differ. I think you will mostly need custom driveshafts.

The chassis/monocoque, and the suspension are more than upto it.

Yup, I am sure the chassis and suspension can hold the output of the Verna motor.

But the clutch and gearbox wont.
would it be easier to use the verna gearbox and clutch then?

The gearbox surely won't handle the additional torque. But then again I am not too sure if you can mate the Swift Gearbox to the Verna. Better thing would be to retain the Gearbox, ECU, sensors and wiring harness from the Verna itself.

Then you need to worry about the placement of the radiator, condenser, intercooler etc. For all this you will need to get the exact measurements of the engine bays. Remember the Swifts engine is cramped already.

[MechaniX]

Ripper:

1) Engine Transplant : Engine, mounts, wiring harness, cooling parts, ECU, A/C etc. If ECU is tied to the car's security you might need instrument console, ignition wiring and related stuff.

2) Power to Wheel : Gearbox, differential, shafts, wheels, brakes. If you have ABS, depending on drive-train changes it might need calibration.

3) Handle the Power: Suspension, Stabilization.

These are the general list of things involved, depending on the project you will need to investigate the above. If you plan for Verna engine then you probably need to plan for a target platform that can handle remapped/peeted engine. If you have swift sold with different power output elsewhere you could check what all has changed with power. First thing to check is would the transplant worth the cost and effort? Can you try modding the swift engine with bigger turbo, VGT etc to achieve same result as transplant.