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    Thread: Volkswagen, Audi accused of cheating US Diesel Emissions Tests - May face $18 Billion in fines!

    1. #21

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      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
      Service intervals based on odometer reading? Or date stamp from the instrument cluster in multiples of 6/12/18 months or whatever the period is. Activate the emissions map a little before the stipulated time period maybe to play it safe.

      Also, at each service VW cars have a service counter that needs to be reset IIRC.
      Don't think it needs manual intervention. It is said to be sophisticated software, so it might involve some parameters which are set during such tests. Some of these could be: Car in neutral, accelerator etc being pressed (nobody would do that otherwise in a stationary car) to reach certain RPMs etc. Just speculating, as i do not know enough about emission tests.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by speed79 View Post
      It is said to be sophisticated software, so it might involve some parameters which are set during such tests. Some of these could be: Car in neutral, accelerator etc being pressed (nobody would do that otherwise in a stationary car) to reach certain RPMs etc. Just speculating, as i do not know enough about emission tests.
      It looks like VW got trapped in their own attempt of becoming more smarter than they actually are

      Read this:

      In order to meet tougher emissions regulations that went into effect in 2008, most automakers started supplying their diesel cars with tanks of a urea-based solution (often referred to as “AdBlue”) that cuts down on nitrogen oxide emissions.

      Many larger diesel engines on big sedans and SUV, including some from Audi as well as competitors at BMW and Mercedes, use such a system. And so did some of the Passats, too.

      But VW and Audi said the 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine on the smaller cars was able to meet the requirements without a urea injection system — although many people have wondered exactly how. (Update: Just to clarify, newer TDI models like the MK7 Golf, made from 2015 on, do include urea injection.)

      On Friday, the EPA announced they found the TDI cars contained “a sophisticated software algorithm” which detected when the car was being tested for emissions. When that happens, the software drastically reduces the emissions as compared to normal driving, indicating to testers that the car had passed.

      Basically, it’s like taking a test when you already know what the answers are. It appears the cheat device was present on all TDI cars, not just ones sent for emissions testing.


      Source


      Quote Originally Posted by Balavignesh Ram View Post
      What happens next? VW is going to recall the cars and pay fine to US court?
      Wait and watch, its matter between governments and big companies, nothing can be said right now.
      Last edited by Jack Sparrow; 22nd Sep 2015 at 15:56.

    3. #23

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      Quote Originally Posted by speed79 View Post
      When I got first PUC for Vista (diesel), the process was different from petrol cars. It was an elaborate process, and even involved putting a probe through engine oil inlet. No probe was ever inserted in the exhaust (like petrol cars). But all subsequent PUC tests have not used any probe at all. They just connect a meter to car battery terminals, use accelerator to reach designated RPMs (I wonder how do they get RPM readings using their meter, with connect just to the battery terminals??). And we get emission readings, without use of a probe. Clearly it is a scam.
      "

      I never checked emission on my existing car till now. No authorities seem to be bothered about that.. mostly they ask for RC, Insurance and DL. If all are perfect then look at number plate and let us go.....
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    4. #24

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      I don't think VW would be able to recover. With the stock in free fall ( fallen nearly 50%) 11 million vehicles affected, USA market lost for sure.
      The future will be dissolution of the largest automobile group.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
      What I don't understand is how can a software know when a test is happening?
      Here is what I read somewhere.

      VAG has been inserting code in its ECU software that tracked steering and pedal movements since 2009. There seems to be a specific combination or sequence of events followed in the lab tests by regulators when staging the vehicle for NoX tests. When such a combination is detected, the ECU turned its pollution controls ON. The rest of the time, the pollution controls were switched off.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Digital Vampire View Post
      VAG has been inserting code in its ECU software that tracked steering and pedal movements since 2009. There seems to be specific combination or sequence of events followed in the lab tests by regulators when staging the vehicle for NoX tests. When such a combination is detected, the ECU turned its pollution controls ON. The rest of the time, the pollution controls were switched off.
      What is the set back on the engine when pollution controls ON?

      Only VAG uses such kind of tricks?
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    7. #27
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      Another Lance Armstrong incident, its very sad that a manufacturer as big as VW, and having the kind of reputation that they do have been leveled and proved of such a charge. As for the PUC emissions that we have here, they are done without load, that means that the engines behavior will always be different, any tuner or enthusiast worth his or her salt knows that the look up table for injection pulse duration is dependent on engine load, hence the engine spews most pollution under heavier loads. I think their job should be considered done if they keep the smoking vehicles off the road, regardless of whichever fuel they use.
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      Volkswagen says 11 million vehicles worldwide are involved in the scandal that has erupted over its rigging of US car emissions tests.
      It said it was setting aside €6.5bn (£4.7bn) to cover costs of the scandal.

      The boss of Volkswagen's US business, Michael Horn, has admitted it "totally screwed up" in using software to rig emissions tests.
      BBC business editor Kamal Ahmed says the UK Department of Transport is to demand an EU-wide probe of the affair.


      source : BBC.com
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      Engineering Explained: What's All The Hype About VW And Emissions Cheating?

      Volkswagen shares have plummeted after it was found out to be cheating emissions in the US market. Here's everything you need to know with some very useful engineering insight!

      The situation with Volkswagen and cheating emissions in the US market is very serious. Let’s attempt to focus on facts, answering the following six questions:

      1. What is Volkswagen accused of doing?
      2. How do diesel emissions work? (Very basic overview)
      3. What is a defeat device?
      4. Why does it matter?
      5. How can you digitally alter emissions?
      6. Should everyone panic?


      1. What is Volkswagen accused of doing?

      The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has issued Volkswagen a Notice of Violation (NOV) for failing to comply with the Clean Air Act. It’s claimed that VW has installed ‘defeat devices’ which alter the emissions of the vehicle. When the vehicle is being tested for emissions, the vehicle operates in a different mode which allows it to pass the test. When the vehicle is operating normally, the defeat device works to reduce the amount of influence on emissions control. It’s not yet clear how the vehicle knows when it is being tested for emissions. To put it very plainly, VW is cheating US emissions with certain 2009-2015 model year diesel vehicles with 2.0-litre engines.


      2. How do diesel emissions work?

      Modern diesel engines have several stages of emissions control that the exhaust gas undergoes as it leaves the tailpipe.

      • Diesel particulate Filters (DPF) are used to remove soot from the exhaust.
      • Diesel oxidation catalysts (DOC) are used to react with the exhaust gases so that the byproducts leaving the exhaust pipe are primarily CO2 and H20.
      • Selective catalytic reduction (SCR) is a way of reducing nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions by injecting diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) into the exhaust gas before it enters the catalyst. The same goal is shared here: start with NOx but end with nitrogen (N2) and water (H2O) on the other side. You may hear of DEF commonly referred to as AdBlue.



      3. What is a defeat device?

      A defeat device is a system with the goal of allowing an engine to pass emissions, even though the true emissions would not pass. This isn’t exactly something new. In 2007 the EPA shut down Casper’s Electronics’ sales of O2 simulators which trick the car into thinking the emissions systems are fully functional when they are not (you could even remove the catalytic converter completely).

      In the case of VW, the defeat device is purely digital; it’s a matter of coding which according to the EPA allows the car to “bypass, defeat, or render inoperative elements of the vehicles’ emissions control system that exist to comply with CAA emissions standards.” According to the EPA NOV, the defeat device knows whether or not to activate based on various inputs including the steering wheel position, vehicle speed, duration of engine operation, and barometric pressure. A “dyno calibration” is run under emissions testing, and a “road calibration” is used during normal operation.


      4. Why does it matter?

      NOx emissions are poisonous gases which can cause a vast array of environmental problems. This gas can cause respiratory illnesses, reacts with air to form nitric acid and toxic organic nitrates, and reacts with the atmosphere to produce ground level ozone formation (smog). It’s a poison to the air, and it’s incredibly important that levels are kept low. The EPA is claiming NOx levels from VW as high as 40 times above EPA requirements. To put this into perspective, the EPA found that with the Casper O2 sims, emissions were as much as 50 times above EPA requirements, and this could be with the catalytic converter completely removed!


      5. How can you digitally alter emissions?


      Let me be clear that it isn’t known what Volkswagen is altering in order to pass the test at this time. While speculating what it might be doing is fascinating, it’s important to know that all of the facts aren’t out yet. For the purposes of better understanding emissions, the following points are some of the ways that you could decrease emissions through digital tuning.


      Exhaust Gas Re-circulation

      The way this works is fairly straight forward. Exhaust gas is recirculated into the intake manifold. This gas is added to the air fuel mixture, but is not capable of combustion as it is depleted of oxygen. The added gas acts as a buffer (absorbs some heat, and reduces the volumetric efficiency of the engine) and overall reduces the peak temperatures reached in combustion. With lower temperatures, oxygen (O2) and nitrogen (N2) molecules do not split to then recombine and form harmful nitrogen oxides. The more EGR you have, the less performance you’ll have, but it will result in fewer NOx emissions.


      Variable Valve Timing

      A modern way of controlling exhaust gas recirculation is by using variable valve timing (rather than an EGR valve). When the engine is on the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve can close prematurely, keeping a specific portion of inert gas behind to use in the next power stroke. To reduce NOx emissions, you can close the exhaust valve sooner on the exhaust stroke. To increase performance, you would do the opposite.


      Increase AdBlue/DEF Injection

      The reaction of the SCR will be less efficient if less AdBlue is injected. Though this may not have a huge impact on performance, the less AdBlue that’s injected, the less frequently you’ll have to fill it, meaning a reduction in maintenance.


      Air/Fuel Ratio

      Diesel engines have a far larger range of air/fuel mixtures under which they can operate versus gasoline (ratios of 70:1 are not unheard of). If the engine is running fairly lean, O2 will be left over after the reaction, and this O2 is used to react with the nitrogen at high temperatures to form NOx. By altering the air/fuel ratio you can change the emissions.



      6. Should everyone panic?

      Only if you’ve just recently invested your entire portfolio into VW stocks (gotta remember to diversify!) need you panic. Regardless of what happens here, it’s undeniable that VW makes phenomenally efficient vehicles. So far, the Jetta TDI is the most fuel efficient vehicle I’ve tested, and it commonly achieved greater than 50mpg when I drove it (peaking at 62 mpg for a brief highway trip).

      Volkswagen has a problem and they will address it, and current VW TDI customers will be notified of the recall. It will be a bumpy ride for the execs at VW. Fix the problem, obey the law, and move on.



      via - Car Throttle

      Engineering Explained: Whats All The Hype About VW And Emissions Cheating?
      Last edited by Ironhide; 22nd Sep 2015 at 21:25.
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