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    Thread: Apprenticeship at a tuner/race engineer?

    1. #1
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      Apprenticeship at a tuner/race engineer?

      Hey guys, the resident wannabe tooner here.

      I did start with engineering, but the state of my university (Auto lab not even fully set up for over a year now, professors literally only interested in attendances, automotive learning material literally ages old, and the professor not updated with latest developments), and their staff saying that they support literally no activity other than classes and labs. They told me that everything except classes, be it Baja SAE, Supra have to be done on my cost and no support will be given, has made me rethink my choices to the point where I have applied for a course in journalism so that I can atleast struggle as an automotive journalist. I am to hear from the university at fourth of January, and in the case I do not make the uni, I will have to do something big in order to get noticed

      Since my current trajectory will get me nowhere even close to what I wish to achieve- Motorsports and true immersion in it, I decided to chase after my truer passion and find a veteran to learn the trade of tuning and other stuff from. Now, in the hills of Dehradun we only have A-grade dumbas5es who like to impale themselves in the nearest tree on the pretext of being a racer, and that disgusts me.

      However, Bangalore and the south has quite a lot of tuning houses and what not, but since I have zero idea of the places there, apart from some EPIC ones like Mr Raju of RC, Racetech that doesn't necessarily home-grow cars, but you get the point. There are also tracks and stuff. Heaven.

      Are there any tuners here who can point me in the right direction? For apprenticeship or even an internship?
      Celebrating the thrill of driving, one dent at a time

    2. #2

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      Hi,
      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      I did start with engineering, but the state of my university (Auto lab not even fully set up for over a year now, professors literally only interested in attendances, automotive learning material literally ages old, and the professor not updated with latest developments), and their staff saying that they support literally no activity other than classes and labs.
      I know exactly what you mean. I had similar intentions and joined B.E. Automobile Engineering. However I cleared my course with flying colours, at the end of the course, the college felt proud for providing me campus offer at Wipro and CTS along with the rest of the C.S.E, E.E.E, E.C.E flock.

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      has made me rethink my choices to the point where I have applied for a course in journalism so that I can atleast struggle as an automotive journalist.
      I too had to think what to do next, I immediately applied for an M.B.A. with a specialization in Operations Management as it dealt with Quality, Supply Chain Management, Logistics, etc which would aid in auto industry environment.
      But the college had mandatory dual specialization, with Marketing being compulsory. So, I passed out with with dual specialization - Operations Management & Marketing.
      Irrespective of the specialization that one choses (from Operations, HR, Finance), everyone in the class got placed in a Marketing oriented job.

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      Are there any tuners here who can point me in the right direction? For apprenticeship or even an internship?
      Coming to answer your question, I have thought about doing a course here, but haven't yet. I'm not 100% aware/sure of it's worthiness yet.
      http://siriusmotorsports.in/
      Visit their FB page or call them up and clear your queries.

      I've alse heard about Petes academy, But I don't think that they are open yet.

    3. #3

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      Has anyone told you that writing could be a serious pastime.for you MSW. "Impale themselves on a tree" got me a tummy ache laughing.

      Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by laxminarayanans View Post
      I know exactly what you mean. I had similar intentions and joined B.E. Automobile Engineering. However I cleared my course with flying colours, at the end of the course, the college felt proud for providing me campus offer at Wipro and CTS along with the rest of the C.S.E, E.E.E, E.C.E flock.
      Whoah whoah whoah easy on the grades please. I had to clear 4 backlogs in year one itself because of how disinterested and disappointed I was when I joined. As a matter of fact, I have a mathematics end semester tomorrow and I haven't studied a word for it because my prof is a **** and I couldn't understand shit. In the mid semesters just four guys passed. Think of that

      Quote Originally Posted by laxminarayanans View Post
      I too had to think what to do next, I immediately applied for an M.B.A. with a specialization in Operations Management as it dealt with Quality, Supply Chain Management, Logistics, etc which would aid in auto industry environment.
      I don't have much interest in MBA, but I'd rather do the summer course in writing from Bombay. IDK, I just hate being a cliché. My college relies more on academic excellence rather than practical knowledge and due to that I have had people who have doubted why a CVT wouldn't work in a drift trike opposed to a clutch and chain drive.

      Quote Originally Posted by laxminarayanans View Post
      Coming to answer your question, I have thought about doing a course here, but haven't yet. I'm not 100% aware/sure of it's worthiness yet.
      The training page is empty. Might message them on FB later. But how Sirius is the name Sirius in indian motorsports?

      Quote Originally Posted by megazoid View Post
      Has anyone told you that writing could be a serious pastime.for you MSW. "Impale themselves on a tree" got me a tummy ache laughing.
      I applied to journalism for this exact reason. I can write, and have been told about this on more than one occasion. I dunno how well, but good enough for me. Thanks a lot for the praise!
      Celebrating the thrill of driving, one dent at a time

    5. #5
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      Honestly, if you want to do something out of your life and make a good earning, forget the tuning industry. It has to be your 2nd job, while you have a full time job that will actually feed you on a daily basis.

      There are no good tuning courses in India. If you're serious about it, you will have to go abroad, but be ready to pay through your nose.

      If you want to learn working on cars, as a hands on experience, maybe try an internship or something at Racetech! That's the only place I'd suggest that will be worth your time.

      Or if your family has enough money to encourage you, open a good workshop with good mechanics and helpers, a good workshop that's reliable and professional at servicing, fixing cars is the first step to getting to tuning cars. Once you provide a realiable service, you can convert the same clients to tune their cars. For that to happen, you have to win their trust first.

      Plus, when you tune cars, you also need to service those cars, fix issues, so you can't rely on an outside workshop to do that for you.
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - The Torque Monster.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - A 400+HP corner craving machine!
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Tuning - Importers for Audiofrog & Arc Audio/APR Tuning Authorized Dealers/Engine Remap Specialists for all makes/models.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Eton/Stetcom/Tru Technology/Blam Audio/Mobridge/Stetsom/Audible Physics/AIV/Gladen/Dampmat/Dr Artex Damping and more.

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
      Honestly, if you want to do something out of your life and make a good earning, forget the tuning industry.
      I don't remember writing anywhere that I want to make an income stream out of this. Or in hindi- Arre sir aap yahin to maat kha gaye XD.

      I want to learn it for the sheer thrill of learning it. I want to be the guy who does magic with them cylinder heads or ECU and changes cars with a few hours on his trusty laptop. I want to be the guy who tunes for experimentation and sheer joy of making things better than they were. I want to drop a bus engine in an Ambassador and make a drift car out of it, or make a diesel rev to 10000RPM. I want to be the guy who makes things with his own two hands. Services cars no one else can because he understands them, and does not depend on service manuals and part availability. I want to see the smile people get when they get shoved by the newfound acceleration. I want to learn for the sake of learning. Not for a profession

      And yes your service workshop is a very practical idea, one that I had planned out already. I had the idea of opening up a dealership+service center and allocate a lil corner to myself and my creations. For that, yes, your advice is pure gold.

      Does Harmonixx tuning accept apprentices for learning? This boi just wants to learn. And if I can get a certificate for my troubles in the end of the period, I will die a happy man.
      Last edited by MSW; 4th Dec 2018 at 14:40.
      Celebrating the thrill of driving, one dent at a time

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      I want to learn for the sake of learning.
      hmm, interesting....

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      I want to be the guy who tunes for experimentation and sheer joy of making things better than they were. I want to drop a bus engine in an Ambassador and make a drift car out of it, or make a diesel rev to 10000RPM. I want to be the guy who makes things with his own two hands. Services cars no one else can because he understands them, and does not depend on service manuals and part availability. I want to see the smile people get when they get shoved by the newfound acceleration.
      for all these you need to know fundamentals in and out, the art, science, commerce as well as maths of it, along with it, you need the attitude of getting hands dirty or habit of jumping into a problem without hesitation of what will happen. you also need to build trust with owners of those vehicles and make them believe that you will not incur total loss for them. it requires certain element of pedigree, skills, experience and established credibility before it actually happens. it is a long journey.

      Your request for apprentice, tells me that you are looking to cut short your path of learning through some good environment, tools, already defined process, available mentor / guide/ coach so that you can stick to it like a veil or parasite and get as much juice as possible. while it is a good approach, it does not develop your roots well enough or deep enough.

      instead focus on mastering the fundamentals, do small experiments and learn, learn different aspects of automobiles viz. engine, engine hardware, software, tools, coding, calibration, calibration tuning, entire subsystems and application details either through a core engineering studies or through distance learning + own experimentation + probono work at garages/tuners etc.

      i think there is no quick path to great success.

    8. #8

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      Quote Originally Posted by laxminarayanans View Post
      Hi,

      I know exactly what you mean. I had similar intentions and joined B.E. Automobile Engineering. However I cleared my course with flying colours, at the end of the course, the college felt proud for providing me campus offer at Wipro and CTS along with the rest of the C.S.E, E.E.E, E.C.E flock.


      I too had to think what to do next, I immediately applied for an M.B.A. with a specialization in Operations Management as it dealt with Quality, Supply Chain Management, Logistics, etc which would aid in auto industry environment.
      But the college had mandatory dual specialization, with Marketing being compulsory. So, I passed out with with dual specialization - Operations Management & Marketing.
      Irrespective of the specialization that one choses (from Operations, HR, Finance), everyone in the class got placed in a Marketing oriented job.


      Coming to answer your question, I have thought about doing a course here, but haven't yet. I'm not 100% aware/sure of it's worthiness yet.
      http://siriusmotorsports.in/
      Visit their FB page or call them up and clear your queries.
      Apologies about our webpage, its ages old and have been meaning to update it for a while.
      I run Sirius Motorsports and what ever I share here, please take it with a pinch of salt.

      Coming to your question about Motorsports in India, one word. Dont try and make it ( hope to make it ) a career. Motorsports in India is not what it is in other places.
      I am speaking from my own personal experience - having calibrated ( I prefer calibration over tuning ) and supported the 1600 Polo in the very first season and eventually winning championship and overall second in the second year, India's top FSAE teams from down south, top saloon car teams etc., you hardly would have heard about our name anywhere.

      So about 3 years back we made a decision to shift over to the OEM and ed-tech segment. And our focus these days has been with ECU development, testing and training.

      So there you have it!!! Forget motorsports, get into OEM R&D and calibration. You'll make enough money to run your own race team

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      I don't remember writing anywhere that I want to make an income stream out of this.
      I didn't say you wrote that, it was just a friendly advice from my side. I've seen a lot of people fall for the glamorous side of the "tuning industry" and soon think they can make it a career. The truth is, it's not worth the effort/money. Like harrie mentioned, it's not a sustainable business unless you have a bunch of clients/friends willing to allow you to experiment with their car.

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      . I want to drop a bus engine in an Ambassador and make a drift car out of it, or make a diesel rev to 10000RPM.
      Honestly, try not to re-invent the wheel, such outlandish projects will take a ton of time, you will constantly be ridden with issues and niggles that will take time and a ton of money fixing! And they will never run reliably. I've seen plenty of such projects undertaken by people, only to be shelved years later, because they couldn't fix issues or the project just became too expensive.

      There is a reason, no diesel engine that I know of, revs to 10,000 RPM. You need to start with the basics. And there is no better way to start than servicing regular cars, see how to tackle with simple issues, get good at it, before you move onto hardcore projects!

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      Services cars no one else can because he understands them, and does not depend on service manuals and part availability.
      Even some of the best automobile engineers refer to service manuals all the time. There is a reason for that, it removes downtime that could lead to improper install/uninstallation of components. Even when we mod cars at Harmonixx, even though we know most of the things, we refer to manuals all the time, to see if the steps are being followed correctly, to check if there is a particual way to remove an item that we may have over looked upon!

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      I want to learn for the sake of learning. Not for a profession
      If that is your end goal, start with your own project car. Pick up a Zen/Esteem, try to work on it. Start with fixing the basic niggles, get the car running perfectly. Then slowly get into modding it, step by step. That is the best way to learn!

      When I started Harmonixx Tuning, I was very clearly that this was going to be a small part of my business and not the sole source of income. I still concentrate on Car Audio, because that is where I make a chunk of the money which funds the engine performance tuning side. The margins in the tuning industry are peanuts, it's a very competitive market, where all that is happening right now, is price wars on who can provide the cheapest remap/hardware to the end customer.

      If you take the top 5 consumer remapping firms in India, I can assure you the owners all have a day job, this is only a hobby for them. Those that started this business as a sole income, have all gone down under or are close to it.

      That is why, when I started Harmonixx Tuning I had a few things very clear in mind:

      1. It's only going to be a part of the business strategy. We still do Car Audio, we sell tyres, alloys and I am also starting my own restaurant soon (working on cars isn't as financially lucrative as people assume it is).
      2. We will only sell hi-quality parts, mostly bolt-on stuff. This reduces downtime, most parts come with a ton of R&D, at the cost of being expensive. We want to cater to only those clients who want nothing but the best for their cars and won't hesitate to pay a premium.
      3. We don't do off beat builds, yet! Eg: Turboing a NA car. This needs way too much development time, will be ridden with issues and the chances of a client being ****ed with you and writing a dark side thread are a plenty.

      Quote Originally Posted by MSW View Post
      Does Harmonixx tuning accept apprentices for learning?
      Not at this moment, we provide a platform to source and sell hi-quality hardware, all of our mechanical work is outsourced to very competent people who do all our installs under my personal supervision, to the high standards I've set for myself. Unless, we have a place of our own, where all of this can be done under our own roof, an internship will not be possible at the moment!

      But we are working on this as we speak! Once things are in place, you will hear from me

      If I were you, I'd listen to harrie. Get into OEM industry! That's where all the fun is and you will learn the most and grow. Imagine working for a company like Maruti/Toyota and slowly progressing to bigger companies like Audi/BMW/Mercedes and then hopefully move onto something like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Bugatti. You will get to learn a lot, albeit without spending your money that could get sunk in this industry!

      Sadly, when I was growing up, we didn't have encouragement from our families, all they wanted was for us to become a doctor/engineer and live a normal life. This generation is very lucky in that regard, that there are so many avenues you can pursue.
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - The Torque Monster.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - A 400+HP corner craving machine!
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Tuning - Importers for Audiofrog & Arc Audio/APR Tuning Authorized Dealers/Engine Remap Specialists for all makes/models.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Eton/Stetcom/Tru Technology/Blam Audio/Mobridge/Stetsom/Audible Physics/AIV/Gladen/Dampmat/Dr Artex Damping and more.

    10. #10
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      And a word MSW, i see the tone in which you put sentences together at some places border arrogance. If i were you, i would at least be courteous since i am the one looking for information / guidelines / suggestions.

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