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    Thread: Yamaha vs Denon vs Marantz vs Onkyo vs NAD vs Pioneer AVRs

    1. #31

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      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      I have kind of made up my mind to pick ELAC Debut 2.0 6
      Go for the first version of Elac Debut series, The first version of Debut B6 has better low end than the version 2.0
      But the Elac Debut will need good power on the amp. 100 watt RMS is what I will recommend.

      If you can afford, do not compromise on the receiver. Buy the premium series.
      Add brands like Anthem, Outlaw, Arcam, NAD to the kitty and see if you can get to audition.

      If you want to split the cost overtime, spread it over a very good receiver first and buy the main speakers and sub now. Add the center and surrounds later.

      The entire Elac Debut series will be great for movies, but they are power hungry.
      Car Audio: 4-way active
      Home Audio: Passive

    2. #32
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      I ran a quick comparison of the devices in my shortlist range. Aventage series entry level model A680 was very disappointing. How can they have a premium series, output 80 watts.

      The difference between V683 and V685 from Yamaha is miniscule if you leave the DAC. I am mildly surprised that even the high end models like X3400, don't run 384kh DAC. X2400h has the worst rating, but I don't think the device itself is bad.

      I think I'll end up picking either Yamaha V683 or Denon X2400h. Both fit my requirement and at 90w and 95w, (I know these numbers can't be trusted), they give me enough juice to play with.

      Look at Onkyo NR787. It has been gettiing rave reviews. Offers great power, weights like an old school AVR, gives additional 2 channels to play with, but sadly, doesn't have 4k upscaling. I don't have a 4k TV anyway - but I want to to ensure I am safe if I chose to upgrade my TV in 1-2 years.

      Brand Yamaha Yamaha Yamaha Denon Denon Onkyo Onkyo Pioneer
      Model Name RX-V683 RX-V685 RX-A680 AVR-X2400h AVR-X3400h TX-NR787 TX-RZ-620 VSX-LX303
      Launch Date Mar-17 Apr-18 May-18 May-17 Jul-17 May-18 May-17 May-18
      Amazon Rating 4.2, 229 4.5, 47 NA 3.8, 46 4.3, 67 4.1, 36 4.4, 38 3.9, 11
      Channel 7.2 7.2 7.2 7.2 7.2 9.2 7.2 9.2
      Power Output 90w 90w 80w 95w 105w 100w 100w 100w
      Weight 22pounds 23pounds 18pounds 21pounds 24pounds 24pounds 22pounds 24pounds
      HDMI IN 6 5 4 8 8 7 7 7
      HDMI OUT 1? 2 1 2 3 2 2 2
      HDCP 2.2 Yes yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
      Dimensions 14.9x17.1x6.8 14.9x17.1x6.7 12.4x17.1x6.3 13.3x17.1x6.6 15.3x17.1x6.6 15x17.3x6.9 14.8x17.1x6.9 14.6x17.3x6.9
      ATMOS Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
      DTS Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
      Chromecast NA NA NA NA NA Built in Built in Built in
      Wireless Speakers? MusicCast MusicCast MusicCast HEOS HEOS DTS Play-Fi DTS Play-Fi DTS Play-Fi
      4k UHD Upscaling Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes NO NO Yes
      Zone 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 3
      DAC? 192kHz / 24-bit 384k / 32bit 384k / 32bit 192k / 32bit 192k / 32bit 384k / 32bit 384k / 32bit 384k / 32bit

    3. #33
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      Nomad, your this post reminds me for this post on my XUV thread Hunting the Cheetah! - Page 3

      Thank you. I agree with all the points.

      A HT bug had bitten you as well and you spent few months before settling down with your Sony system. Let me have my share of it

      1. Getting just an AVR and couple of bookshelf for now. No big sub or other speakers. Will just keep these and connect Tata sky, android box, and possibly a blue ray player.

      2. I'll try whatever I can to keep the setup simple and have lesser wires and cables run around.

      3. Grand mother will definitely have a learning curve

      4. Not so much the speakers, but the wires certainly should be less visible. The AVRs I am looking for do support wireless surround speakers. Though that is a future upgrade.

      5. It sure does. It has been in ups and down along with your HT search. Infact we all were searching together along with speed79. You got yourself Sony, speed settled for JBL and I got myself a Bose. It worked for me for so long. But I guess, a little upgrade will be fun.

      6. True, Yamaha / Denon / Onkyo, all three have service centers in India and while they'll not honor the warranty from US, I'll have to fund the repair cost. Very much the same as having a car without insurance - you pay if anything breaks.

    4. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      your this post reminds me for this post on my XUV thread
      looks like i have the habit of writing such posts , i am sorry, it is not intentional, but just a Gross Check. I have seen sometimes i tend to get carried away with details, i tend to ignore larger picture and real intent. so i generally try and step back, re-look and re-assess.

      I see that you are doing a lot of comparative study of AVR units available out there, i have also read your questions / explorations about speakers. you seems to have made up your mind that you need better sound to enrich your home cinema experience. you may go ahead and buy those AVRs and Speakers, then you might realize that what you really needed was a larger display. that realization may lead you to spend again and get a larger display. By that time some other trend may come in making us follow that. this is a cyclical process.

      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      But I guess, a little upgrade will be fun.

    5. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
      i am sorry, it is not intentional,
      Pls don't be sorry. Always appreciated & respected your view and perspective

      Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
      this is a cyclical process
      Oh yes. It is. I have no doubts that I'll have some or other things to look for when this is done.

    6. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      How can they have a premium series, output 80 watts.
      Don't get fooled by numbers with manufacturers. Remember there used a fancy marketing term earlier with Audio systems called PMPO ? Some used to go as high as 5000W PMPO in those Sony, Pansonic & Aiwa days !!! and in real world they won't go beyond 1/10th of its real capability in terms of RMS it would be anywhere around 50W RMS. Likewise these days, the RMS numbers are also taken for a toss. Like gkannan sir mentioned especially with Multichannel these numbers in entry and middle level series are to be taken with a pinch of salt. Have a look at the NAD receivers numbers. You'll be quite surprised with their underrated wattage. Their receivers will hardly be rated at 45W or 60W per channel. But don't get fooled by their numbers. They can weigh upon head to head with the receivers that are rated at 100W or even 150W RMS per channel. For example the Onkyo and Pionner 9.2 channels @ 100W per channel I would seriously have a good look at the rating again. There will be small fine print somewhere hidden to say at what mode those numbers holds good. Its no easy feat to generate 100W x 9 channels without big ass transformers in there.

      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      I am mildly surprised that even the high end models like X3400, don't run 384kh DAC
      Again we don't have much content available in that segment, let alone the support. It would be very rare if you get a chance to get hold of a Movie or Audio track with 192Khz in a 32 bit recording ! For home use 24Bit 96Khz itself will be more than sufficient (That itself will be of a studio level quality). Our typical Bluray Rips and DVD's we have still 16bit and 44.1Khz tracks. If its DTS then they would go up to 24bit and 48khz tracks. It will be another good 2 to 3 years for us to get tracks in that bit depth. Its becoming like the Megapixel game in the Digital Camera market.

      Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
      I have seen sometimes i tend to get carried away with details, i tend to ignore larger picture and real intent. so i generally try and step back, re-look and re-assess.
      A very good practice which many of us including me lack ! When the bug bites, be it car or Audio or any gadget for that matter, we tend to get carried away with the lust of owning bigger better one rather than looking at the practicality or the real need of it.

      Quote Originally Posted by rksingh1 View Post
      Pls don't be sorry. Always appreciated & respected your view and perspective
      +100 and its good to always have someone who helps us with a completely different perspective altogether which we would've completely not thought of.
      Last edited by Lvramanan; 18th Apr 2019 at 17:52.

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    7. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lvramanan View Post
      Onkyo and Pionner 9.2 channels @ 100W per channel I would seriously have a good look at the rating again
      This is what their spec sheet reads:

      Onkyo NR787 Rated Output Power (FTC) :

      > With 8 ohm loads, both channels driven, from 20-20,000 Hz; rated 100 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 0.08% total harmonic distortion from 250 milliwatts to rated output.
      > Maximum Effective Output Power 220 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven of 10% THD
      > Dynamic Power (*)
      * IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power : 250 W (3 Ω, Front), 220 W (4 Ω, Front), 130 W (8 Ω, Front)
      > THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise) : 0.08% (20 Hz - 20,000 Hz, half power)

      Pioneer LX303 Output :

      > 200 Watt - 6 Ohm - at 1 kHz - THD 10% - 1 channels
      > 100 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 kHz - THD 0.08% - 2 channels

      Most of the other brands are referring to power output in similar modes. While the misuse of wattage is understood, but since all the companies are doing it, we can generalize it over all of them.

      Talking of these two models, I have auditioned LX303 - was lovely to hear and it definitely blew away Denon 2113 without any questions. Internet apparently loves these two specific models. NR787 is not from the premium RZ line of products from Onkyo, still people prefer it more than similar specced RZ630.

      I am still reviewing these. Will see. V683 / X2400h are still my pick based on features / brand and price. I am more inclined towards Yamaha V683 though. The reviews are better. DAC is one concern, but like you mentioned - I'll not knitpick and mostly ignore that feature. Still reading about it. Market is so price volatile for AVRs. X1500H just crashed $200 in one day.

      There is one YouTube review where the gentleman bought X2400 first and then went and bought NR787, and he totally loved NR787 compared to X2400. And he seemed like just an average joe.

      Last edited by rksingh1; 18th Apr 2019 at 18:38.

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