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    Thread: All about AFTERMARKET HEADERS & FFE.

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post13535.html#p13535
      Mr_Bean Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:29 pm[/url]]Appreciate if someone could throw light on material that goes into making the FFE and associated cost?
      Usually, for FFE, the materials used are

      1. Mild Steel - Doesn't come with a nice finish.
      2. Stainless Steel - Has a nice shiny, glossy finish.

      Apart from that there are few chemical properties of both, but I don't think there is a point in getting there. Both work just fine. If you want the jazzy looks get SS albeit at a slightly higher cost.

      Usually for smaller hatchbacks the cost varies around 6-9k for a complete FFE in MS.
      For bigger hatchbacks & sedans its could go upto 13-14k for MS. SS will be around 2-4k more expensive. Rates purely depend on the tuner you are going to..
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    2. #22

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      I must say, its a very well elaborated guide and after reading it , Iam now thinking of putting a FFE in my car too. I'v contacted N1 Engineering (mumbai) and they are quoting Rs. 14400 (incl. shipping) for complete FFE with Magnaflow muffler. Should I go for it :?:
      And i have maruti 800
      If you can park it and not turn around to look at it

      YOU HAVEN't BOUGHT THE RIGHT CAR !!


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    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post13871.html#p13871
      metal_thread Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:55 pm[/url]]I must say, its a very well elaborated guide and after reading it , Iam now thinking of putting a FFE in my car too. I'v contacted N1 Engineering (mumbai) and they are quoting Rs. 14400 (incl. shipping) for complete FFE with Magnaflow muffler. Should I go for it :?:
      And i have maruti 800
      A complete FFE with a "magnaflow" muffler for 14.5k ? Something doesn't add up here. Normally the magnaflow mufflers cost around 8-12k landed last I enquired.
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - Corner craving TC'd Petrol.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    4. #24

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      Ya I know magnaflows are quite costly as compared to other brands but I got Rs. 5775 + 1600 delivery charges for the muffler alone, for this model


      (for Maruti 800)
      If you can park it and not turn around to look at it

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    5. #25
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      EGR - Exhaust Gas Recirculation

      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885
      How does a Catalytic Converter work?

      Diesel Cat Cons
      [quote:1buwqpb8]Catalytic converters in diesel engines do not work as well in reducing NOx. One reason is that diesel engines run cooler than standard engines, and the converters work better as they heat up. Some of the leading environmental auto experts have come up with a new system that helps to combat this. They inject a urea solution in the exhaust pipe, before it gets to the converter, to evaporate and mix with the exhaust and create a chemical reaction that will reduce NOx. Urea, also known as carbamide, is an organic compound made of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen. It's found in the urine of mammals and amphibians. Urea reacts with NOx to produce nitrogen and water vapor, disposing more than 90 percent of the nitrogen oxides in exhaust gases [source: Innovations Report].
      Dear Rahul,

      Thanks so much for this wonderful thread taking about the know how on exhaust products/CC involved. Very informative.

      Since you mentioned on Catalytic converters in Diesel engines and there inability to reduce Nox Levels, there is also a different method i.e. by using an EGR system or Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Since it would turn out to be expensive to regularly top up Urea and the users of the these diesel vehicles or truck drives might not want to spend on topping it up as it needs to be replaced on frequent intervals; An EGR system might be considered. But it also leads to wear and tear and more fuel consumption .Read on

      Exhaust gas recirculation

      In internal combustion engines, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is a nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions reduction technique used in most petrol/gasoline and diesel engines.

      EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders. In a gasoline engine, this inert exhaust displaces the amount of combustible matter in the cylinder. This means the heat of combustion is less, and the combustion generates the same pressure against the piston at a lower temperature. In a diesel engine, the exhaust gas replaces some of the excess oxygen in the pre-combustion mixture.

      Because NOx formation progresses much faster at high temperatures, EGR reduces the amount of NOx the combustion generates. NOx forms primarily when a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen is subjected to high temperature.

      EGR in diesel engines

      In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air) in controlling NOx emissions.

      Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines. However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures. There are trade offs however. Adding EGR to a diesel reduces the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases in the power stroke. This reduces the amount of power that can be extracted by the piston. EGR also tends to reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke. This is evident by the increase in particulate emissions that corresponds to an increase in EGR. Particulate matter (mainly carbon) that is not burned in the power stroke is wasted energy. Stricter regulations on particulate matter(PM) call for further emission controls to be introduced to compensate for the PM emissions introduced by EGR. The most common is particulate filters in the exhaust system that result in reduced fuel efficiency. Since EGR increases the amount of PM that must be dealt with and reduces the exhaust gas temperatures and available oxygen these filters need to function properly to burn off soot, automakers have had to consider injecting fuel and air directly into the exhaust system to keep these filters from plugging up.

      EGR deletion

      EGR deletion in diesel engines is considered justifiable by a wide range of people, including the environmentally conscious. Although deleting the EGR system results in increased NOx levels, hydrocarbon emissions, Particulates, Carbon monoxide and Carbon dioxide are drastically reduced. Furthermore, EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%. Exhaust gas recirculated back into the cylinders adds wear-inducing contaminants and causes an increase engine oil acidity, which can result in an inefficient, poorly running engine. The increased level of soot also creates the need for diesel particulate filters to prevent environmental contamination.

      EGR implementations

      Usually, an engine recirculates exhaust gas by piping it from the exhaust manifold to the inlet manifold. This design is called external EGR. A control valve (EGR Valve) within the circuit regulates and times the gas flow. Some engine designs perform EGR by trapping exhaust gas within the cylinder by not fully expelling it during the exhaust stroke, which is called internal EGR. A form of internal EGR is used in the rotary Atkinson cycle engine.

      EGR can also be used by using a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT) which uses variable inlet guide vanes to build sufficient backpressure in the exhaust manifold. For EGR to flow, a pressure difference is required across the intake and exhaust manifold and this is created by the VGT.

      Another method that has been experimented with, is using a throttle in a turbocharged diesel engine to decrease the intake pressure, thereby initiating EGR flow.

      Early (1970s) EGR systems were unsophisticated, utilizing manifold vacuum as the only input to an on/off EGR valve; reduced performance and/or drivability were common side effects. Slightly later (mid 1970s to carbureted 1980s) systems included a coolant temperature sensor which didn't enable the EGR system until the engine had achieved normal operating temperature (presumably off the choke valve and therefore less likely to block the EGR passages with carbon buildups, and a lot less likely to stall due to a cold engine). Many added systems like "EGR timers" to disable EGR for a few seconds after a full-throttle acceleration. Vacuum reservoirs and "vacuum amplifiers" were sometimes used, adding to the maze of vacuum hoses under the hood. All vacuum-operated systems, especially the EGR due to vacuum lines necessarily in close proximity to the hot exhaust manifold, were highly prone to vacuum leaks caused by cracked hoses; a condition that plagued early 1970s EGR-equipped cars with bizarre reliability problems (stalling when warm, stalling when cold, stalling or misfiring under partial throttle, etc.). Hoses in these vehicles should be checked by doing a vacuum leak test or pressure smoke test, with a professional smoke generator, when testing smoke escapes from the hose being tested or the vacuum test gage indicates a particular hose is leaking, the vacuum leak has been found.

      Modern systems utilizing electronic engine control computers, multiple control inputs, and servo-driven EGR valves typically improve performance/efficiency with no impact on drivability.

      In the past, a fair number of car owners disconnected their EGR systems in an attempt for better performance and some still do. The belief is either EGR reduces power output, causes a build-up in the intake manifold, or believe that the environmental impact of EGR outweighs the NOx emission reductions. Disconnecting an EGR system is usually as simple as unplugging an electrically operated valve or inserting a ball bearing into the vacuum line in a vacuum-operated EGR valve. In most modern engines, disabling the EGR system will cause the computer to display a check engine light. In most cases, a disabled EGR system will cause the car to fail an emissions test.

      Source: Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, ... cyclopedia
      Regards,
      Dilip

    6. #26
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      Thanks Dilip. Glad you liked it.

      Btw, there is a detailed thread on EGR. Here is the link.
      To block EGR or Not? : Forced Induction ... s - Page 8
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - Corner craving TC'd Petrol.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    7. #27

      ^ BHP = Torque X RPM
       
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      back pressure?

      nice article there
      'm not into car mods but 'm not sure if i can bring it up here.. but back-pressure is not always bad: atleast in case of 2 stroke bikes.

      i have a rx135 4 speed with cat-con pipe. it is generally believed that the cat-cons on these bikes provide certain amount of back pressure which helps in rideability of the bike especially in traffic. bike feels more toquey. in case if you replace the stock cat-con pipe with that of aftermarket rx100 pipes (not chambers) you would feel sudden loss in power in the lower rpms. but bike would revv nicely but again it would make it peaky in nature.

      shouldn't it apply to four wheelers too?

      i guess back-pressure can be good based on the riders/drivers requirements, driving style.
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    8. #28
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      Yes, backpressure aids torque. But does not help in free-revving. The basic idea is to get the exhaust gases out as early as possible so that the next cycle of strokes can begin. But then as you said it makes the power peaky and not suitable for daily driving.

      Exactly the reason why most racing cars including F1 have exhaust pipes as short as possible.
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - Corner craving TC'd Petrol.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    9. #29

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      Sorry to interfare, bt can anybody pass on the contact details from where I can order complete FFE for my m800 ??? Want to get it ship to shimla so have to order from somewhere as near as possible to avoid high shipping charges. N1engineering (mumbai) quoted 9800, where 2500 is just for shipping :-( also contacted automech several times bt no rep, so any1 who can help on dis ?
      If you can park it and not turn around to look at it

      YOU HAVEN't BOUGHT THE RIGHT CAR !!


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    10. #30
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      metal_thread: I would stay away from N1 and Automech.

      If I were to buy FFE for my car today, it would either come from Raj Hingorani (Bangalore), Bobby Jayram (Bangalore), Leela (Bangalore), GT Tuners (Coimbatore) or Ron Chinoy (Bangalore). Some of these guys might ship to Shimla, but then again, you would have to work out the costs and see if it seems practical.
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - Corner craving TC'd Petrol.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

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