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    Thread: 'I've got an ICE doubt' thread! All petty queries here!

    1. #4851
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      mclaren1885's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by gkannan View Post
      be very careful when you use this method as you can easily go overboard with your gains.
      Most companies give higher that actual (or peak performance) RMS rating which you will never reach in real world.
      99% of the installers in India set the HU volume to about 20-25% and then compensate it with keeping the gains on the amplifier at 100% or at least 70-80%. I can definitely say that using the DMM method won't set the gains any higher than 25-35% with 99% of the amplifiers in the market today if you follow the correct method. Unlike the old school amps where manufacturers used to severely under report the specs to have advantage in competitions that were based on amplifier RMS classes back in the days, that trend has seen a huge nose dive in the last decade.

      If you got a chance to interact with dealers on a daily basis and started asking them how they set gains, you'd be appalled. And most of them can't distinguish if the signal is clipping or if they can hear distortion in the setup. Most of them don't even know how to set XO points and once music starts playing, they set a "V" EQ and send the client out of the shop.

      The DMM method has almost reduced the complaints of dealers that the setup is sounding harsh by around 80%. We cater to around 250 dealers all across India for Zapco, so I'd anyday advocate this method over letting untrained, clueless dealers/clients from destroying equipment setting gains the wrong way.

      While people like you, Karan, Piyush and many other ICE gurus here have the ability to set gains by ear or by using an O-Scope or by RTA, majority of the public doesn't understand any of this and this method helps that crowd from blowing things up.

      Using this method sets a few things in order:

      1. The HU volume now becomes 75% from the 25-30% the clueless dealers would set it at earlier.
      2. Gains on the amp are nearly 50-60% lesser now than what they'd set it at earlier, which means the amplifiers run cooler, don't break down due to thermal shutdown, speakers are safer because they don't get a clipped signal.

      Obviously, these are all our personal observations from having to deal with a ton of people on a daily basis who don't understand how to set gains and have been doing it wrong nearly their entire lives. Hoping that they'll set it the right way by "using their ears'' is akin to letting a monkey loose with a loaded gun amidst a huge crowd of homo sapiens. Our warranty claims on amplifier sales have almost come down by 90% now and the fact that companies like Sonicelectronics still run that article on their website so that even uninformed, newbies who pick up equipment from them online don't end up blowing stuff.
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    2. #4852
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      Any reviews on these products?
      Bavsound || BMW Audio, BMW iPhone, BMW Speakers, Subwoofers, and more | BSW, BAVSOUND, Bavarian Soundwerks.

      Alternatively any other upgrades that will not void the warranty on a BMW. I heard the stock audio in the X1 and though it's not bad (at least 100 times better than the stock ICE in my Rapid) but still does not sound that good. Apparently Harman Kardon units are only for the top end variants that too of some models only. X1, X3 & 3 Series don't get it in any variant. Stock units are BMW professional with Alpine speakers.
      The only people who have a problem with FIAT are those who have never owned one!

    3. #4853

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      Never heard them but looks okayish. You can always go with an aftermarket DSP and then install speakers in stock locations. That should get you much much better sound. You can use stock system wiring or use two connectors so that there is no affect on warranty.

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      Something new is Coming!!

    4. #4854
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      We recently installed a set of Bavsound products in a 320D. Entire equipment was supplied by the client. They are definitely not worth the price they command.

      There are plenty of aftermarket OEM replacement speakers for BMWs available today. You can get a VFM OEM replacement to some kickass setups in BMWs.

      Nome of these will have any effect on warranty.

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      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    5. #4855
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      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
      We recently installed a set of Bavsound products in a 320D. Entire equipment was supplied by the client. They are definitely not worth the price they command.

      There are plenty of aftermarket OEM replacement speakers for BMWs available today. You can get a VFM OEM replacement to some kickass setups in BMWs.

      Nome of these will have any effect on warranty.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
      Even BMW has an "Official" upgrade package where they supply a set of Speakers and an Amplifier for 1.16 L. The dealer himself said it's not worth it. They fitted it in a 320D and the customer was so ****ed off he wanted to return it.
      One X1 customer just kept a JBL Bluetooth speaker (costing around 16K) and paired it with his mobile and the sound was better than the upgrade package.
      The only people who have a problem with FIAT are those who have never owned one!

    6. #4856
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      Quote Originally Posted by P3T3R View Post
      Even BMW has an "Official" upgrade package where they supply a set of Speakers and an Amplifier for 1.16 L. The dealer himself said it's not worth it.
      Official upgrade packages are a pure waste of the buyers hard earned money. Here is what you get on Mercedes Benz S-Coupe when you upgrade to their hi-end Burmester 3D Hi-End Setup paying 8k Euros

      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    7. #4857
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      Hi Can anyone please recommend a dsp out of these based on sound quality only --Helix dsp pro, alpine h800 ,Mosconi 6to8.
      I'm really confused as to which one is actually better in terms of the internal components, Specs and sound quality.
      I don't care if I have to sit with my laptop on for nights tuning it.

      Thanks guys

    8. #4858
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      mmslash - These 3 DSPs are probably the best DSPs out there in the market today. The other one that's missing in the list is the Arc Audio PS8.

      If you want to run a center channel or try out the surround sound, your best option would be the H800. If that is not your thing, I'd suggest you pass on the H800 unless you prefer tuning from the RUX controller which is very easy. The H800 is quite an old DSP now, most other DSPs have received several significant upgrades and are much more advanced.

      The DSP Pro is a very good DSP, probably the best DSP out there thanks to the brilliant support from Audiotec Fischer. Go for it if you want 10ch of outputs. My only gripe with the DSP Pro is that we've installed quite a few of them and we've almost always had issues getting them to work well. AF keeps pushing regular updates to the DSP and that kind of keeps throwing issues almost every time you upgrade to the new FW. DIYMA has an extensive thread and you can read about them. Two reasons we don't use the DSP Pro in our Hi-End installs is because it takes too much time to fix these issues and the DSP is bloody expensive (75k + 20k for the Director).

      The 6to8V8 is probably the most stable DSP out there in the market today. The Italians are super lazy (lol), so they don't keep tinkering around with the SW and that makes the DSP super reliable and easy to use. We're almost exclusively using Mosconi DSPs in all our hi end installs today. A lot of people say the SW UI is rudimentary, it is. But it works & works beautifully. Mosconi pricing is just unbelievable in India. And for the current price (56k including RCD Mini), it's probably the best deal in the market if you ask my personal suggestion. In fact my personal car is running a Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace.

      That said, you can't go wrong with any of the 3 DSPs. Choose one based on your needs and your budget.

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      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - A monster in the making.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Audio Inc - Importers for Audiofrog & Zapco.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Dynaudio/Micro Precision/Audible Physics/AIV/Morel/Flux/PHD/Gladen/Focal/Rockford Fosgate/Dampmat/E4 Damping and more.

    9. #4859
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      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
      mmslash - These 3 DSPs are probably the best DSPs out there in the market today. The other one that's missing in the list is the Arc Audio PS8.

      If you want to run a center channel or try out the surround sound, your best option would be the H800. If that is not your thing, I'd suggest you pass on the H800 unless you prefer tuning from the RUX controller which is very easy. The H800 is quite an old DSP now, most other DSPs have received several significant upgrades and are much more advanced.

      The DSP Pro is a very good DSP, probably the best DSP out there thanks to the brilliant support from Audiotec Fischer. Go for it if you want 10ch of outputs. My only gripe with the DSP Pro is that we've installed quite a few of them and we've almost always had issues getting them to work well. AF keeps pushing regular updates to the DSP and that kind of keeps throwing issues almost every time you upgrade to the new FW. DIYMA has an extensive thread and you can read about them. Two reasons we don't use the DSP Pro in our Hi-End installs is because it takes too much time to fix these issues and the DSP is bloody expensive (75k + 20k for the Director).

      The 6to8V8 is probably the most stable DSP out there in the market today. The Italians are super lazy (lol), so they don't keep tinkering around with the SW and that makes the DSP super reliable and easy to use. We're almost exclusively using Mosconi DSPs in all our hi end installs today. A lot of people say the SW UI is rudimentary, it is. But it works & works beautifully. Mosconi pricing is just unbelievable in India. And for the current price (56k including RCD Mini), it's probably the best deal in the market if you ask my personal suggestion. In fact my personal car is running a Mosconi 8to12 Aerospace.

      That said, you can't go wrong with any of the 3 DSPs. Choose one based on your needs and your budget.

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
      Wow Thank you for your such a nice comparison. This has definitely cleared my doubts.I was already leaning towards helix or mosconi.Will make a decision soon.Thanks for the help

    10. #4860

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      Quote Originally Posted by mmslash View Post
      I was already leaning towards helix or mosconi.Will make a decision soon
      http://diyaudiocart.com/finished-pro...-for-Autosound

      This is a very very good DSP.
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