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    Thread: An enthusiast's review - Ultimate Car detailers, Bangalore

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      Post An enthusiast's review - Ultimate Car detailers, Bangalore

      An enthusiast's review - Ultimate Detailerz, Bangalore

      Cars worked on:
      1. 2010 Honda CRV - Premium Mystic Night Pearl
      2. 2011 Ford Figo Exi - Colorado Red

      It all started when I read about Nirmal and Mohsin on this forum (A journey of two detailing heads into Pro Detailing- Ultimate Detailerz Bangalore). Impressed with their pics and narration on gearheads and other social media (facebook, other forums, etc), I decided to check out their services on my recently repaired Figo.

      Sent a PM to Mohsin (kmoh) and got a favourable reply but his trip was postponed so I ended up doing the Figo at another place in Coimbatore (more on that later ).

      Two weeks after I got my Figo and Elantra done, I get a PM from kmoh stating that he is in town and would like to see if I am still interested. Being a lover of cars and with special interest in detailing, I decided to try it out. Rang up couple of my friends and convinced them to use this service and promised them far better results than what they'd get ith 3M.

      The price was agreed for both cars and it was higher than 3M, but I did not mind because the service was also promised to be far better.

      On D-day, I got ready early an got a call from kmoh that he had started, after a very minor delay, he arrived and we set about to my aunt's place that had a big portico and enough space/shade for the lads to work on. It was decided to do that CRV first, followed by the Figo.

      kmoh started with the customary cleaning first (with ONR) and clayed the car. His two friends that accompanied him helped with cleaning up, etc. That's done, he took out his Flex DA and started the polish (not sure what compound he used, I believe it was a premium product, as per his comment. kmoh, please feel free to add information here). It was a bit surprisign to note that very little compound was used compared to the regular process. I was a bit surprised that he could run almost two to three panels with just one application and regular wettign of the pads with ONR/water solution. the whole process took close to 2 hours (not counting the breaks) and then he started applying premium paint sealant. I was expecting a wax polish but kmoh assured me that the paint sealant is good enough and should eliminate the need for wax/glaze. This was my second surprise, but I told to myself, that may be this is best as kmoh should know better.

      When they were finally done with the CRV, I noted that the wheels were not done, and when asked, I was told that it was a separate package and as such they do not recommend that! The reason was that it will get dirty anyway, so why do the wheels and tyres? Now I was startign to get disappointed but again, blamed myself fr not asking this in the first place. By this time I was also getting impatient as the work was not quiet thorough and I just wanted to get it over with. Some of the issues I noted were

      1. Plastics were not covered fully, looked bad especially considering the CRV has HUGE bumpers on front and back and side claddings. There were a lot of spots missed so it looked sore
      2. I could see dead bugs on the back of the ORVM and front bumper
      3. Water/Salt residue in the number plate, between numbers was not removed and when I pointed it to kmoh, got the usual reply... "It's hard to remove and even if I do, you will get it again in a week!"

      At this time I was literally giving up, then my other friend with the Figo rang me. He says he is ready to bring the Figo over and I checked with kmoh again if he was ready to work on it. After his confirmation, asked the friend to bring it over after lunch. I took a break for lunch and returned at 3:00 PM, almost an hour delayed. kmoh started work on the car and I was hoping for a better result since the figo was relatively new (2 months old) and the paint is just a solid one, without a clear coat, so it will be even better to cut and polish.

      Again similar process, run the rubbing compound once, followed by paint sealant (I suspect about 150ml of sealant would have been used for the entire car the time!). I had with my technicians from another place that did my Figo since they were very interested in checking out how kmoh did this. Even they were very surpsied at the quantity of the chemicals used. the Figo was finally done in 3 hours and turned over to me. I checked and found dirt on the running board, pointed that to Mohsin.

      To my horror, he goes about running the DA on the running board without cleaning it first. thenkfully, he stops almost immediately and tells me he canot do that as the pads are pickign up dirst and muck (duh!). I had my friend also with me and did not have the heart to do a post mortem so let it go again. There was also a spot on the front bumper that picked up paint from a wall while parking. This was not cleared fully as kmoh was afraid it would cut through the paint.

      Finally, wheels and tyres not done, the car was declared done and ready so I just paid up without fuss. No discounts were offered, paidn up the full amount. Agreed to pick up some stuff like ONR, Collinite etc that Mohsin agreed to leave with his friend as I did not have enough cash with me then.

      Here are the good things and not-so good things that I experienced with this process...

      Good stuff:

      1. Mohsin is very careful with the car, does not go aggressive on the paint, so you can be absolutely sure that there will be nil damage to the paint coat
      2. Machine used and pads were far better than the local guys/3M and maintained well so you do not haev to worry about pad induced swirl marks
      3. Compounds used are of better quality than your next door painter/detailer
      4. kmoh does the job himself and does not rely on external help/assistants to keep the quality consistent
      5. Very friendly and open to questions, considers suggestions

      Not so good stuff:

      1. For the premium that they charge, the workmanship is not really THAT different/better (consider the case of dead/dried bugs in the CRV and leaving out parts like running board in the Figo)
      2. I appreciate the DIY part but I felt kmoh was tired after working on the first car and did not have the drive/energy to do the second one. He should have said NO, rather than do a job that is not 100%
      3. Was opinionated about stuff like running boards and alloys/tyres. If everyone had similar thoughts, why do the polishing part itself? After all, it is just cosmetic and does not add any functional advantage?

      I am attaching some pics (please excuse the quality, taken with a mobile phone camera) to highlight the issues mentioned.

      In my opinion, Ultimate Detailerz are good if you are looking for regualar stuff and are not very particular/nitpicking. They do their job well and take good car of your car. If you are the nitpicking/OCD/"Love my car!" types, do yourself a favour and get your own kit. DIY is DIY only if you do it yourself!

      I personally feel the approach to be far too casual and the job not worth the high price charged, but that is just my opinion.

      So, what did I do with the CRV then? did I just send it to my friend after promising him a "complete makeover"? Watch this thread...

      Pics:

      1. Front Grille - Not cleaned
      2. Front Grille silver garnish, not cleaned
      3. Dried bug splatter on front bumper
      4. Dried bug splatter on ORVM
      5. & 6. Areas in the side cladding that are not cleaned and dressed
      7. Residue in the number plate
      8. Dirty alloys

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    2. #2

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      Thanks for the review- glad that you liked a few things and sadly a few things went against expectations.Well as posted to quicksilver on PM a few things
      It was a little disaster in some ways- AGREED- why? Let me explain and i did that already to the customer( this is for others who wish to avail our service)
      I was alone and did not expect that the CRV was repainted at so many places- some panels had bad repaint with sanding marks. Doing the car was very tough as it had almost 4-5 repainted panels. In my excitement to deliver i thought i could handle alone, but i was wrong and exhaustion was evident. Added to that- the conditions were horrible with HUGE dust flying around. Considering this, i wish i could post pics of the finished panels which would indicate the quality of the finish delivered.
      I had also mentioned that i HAD to leave by 3:30 but the FIgo came about 1.5 hours late. I was in a dilemma to refuse, but i think i made a mistake here cause i thought the customers friend would feel bad and agreed to do it also. I think i learnt that i should have been firm there and said no.
      I also mentioned that travelling 370 kms in my car did not help at all, so agreed it needed better planning and sadly the customer had to bear this first time experience. That said there are things i will disagree and would like to clarify cause these make this experience look much worse that what it was. Another day and another time esp in Bangalore, our customer would know what Team UD delivers- like what we have to over 100 fully satisfied customers here (incl some prestigious names in the bangalore auto circles)

      Alloys- I did mention that i FORGOT the alloy cleaner at home in bangalore and gave the customer a discount for that having been missed. A mistake made and admitted

      Bug Splatter- that needs a special treatment, does not get cleared in the normal process if its as hard as it was on the CRV, though a lot of it was cleared post claying.
      Time- It took over 4 hours on the CRV, not as mentioned 2 hours with breaks.

      M105 is used the way i did, its not required to pour large amounts - experts around the world will tell the same. It revives once the pad is saturated and sprayed with water. Its a high cutting compound and does not need reapplication after the pad is saturated

      Sealant- None in the world of pro detailing will say they do wax over a sealant, its a total waste. The expectation of having wax over sealant was out of place. Enough sealant was applied, sadly i did not anticipate else before and after pics of the panels done would have conveyed the finish quality. A THIN LAYER is what is recommended of ANY WAX and sealant- as only that much will bond to the paint( tech detail that one can check with any site/experienced detailer)

      Plastics: We DO NOT do the plastics in the basic package, its printed and to compensate for a few lapses( purely due to physical limitations) i did the figo plastics very carefully - even the front grille- those pics should have been posted too, right? The CRV side plastics were done PROPERLY- again pics not taken so cannot prove that. Agreed some parts looked bland- these plastics were extremely worn out and faded and needed more attention and time which i had sadly run out of- again something that was circumstantial but yes could have been better

      Running Board: The area i was being asked to run it on was lower part of the running board- dirty with road mud- well to be honest, we have never run a compound on the lower running board. Anyways the car was expected to be washed and cleaned before we start our work- standard procedure we follow
      Figo Bumper
      If i run a cutting compound to no end PAINT WILL COME OUT and that is the reason one has to stop. 95% of the paint marks had GONE and i pointed out to ANOTHER area in the rear bumper where i removed the marks, that is not mentioned. Bumper paints are very thin compared to the body- a well known fact in most cars.

      I offered a FULL REFUND on one of the cars when i got to know this feedback via PM from the customer and even apologized for the few lapses. It was a mistake at my end to expect me to be able to do 100% for Both cars alone in a single day considering the conditions i operated in( huge dust, wind), that is the reason for a few things left out and nothing else. I also had planned to offer a discount on a few items the customer wanted to pick up but i did not get that chance at all to compensate for not giving 100%.
      All in all as i said, sad that it turned out this way, many learnings for me too. This in NO WAY reflects on what Team UD delivers or is capable of, an off day purely due to situations( happens with the best in the world)

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      kmoh, I appreciate your replies and to be fair, most of it holds ground, as I had mentioned and agreed over PM with you. This was not meant to be a thread bashing your work and I am sure you understand that. I will add to this further to clear the air. Cheers!

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      Yep, and I said that a totally unexpected turn of events, overall I wish I could offer a treatment for another of your cars to give you the complete "ultimate experience"
      Hope that happens sometime maybe with your repainted lancer
      Could not physically handle the load in those conditions for which I felt really bad, anyways hope can make it up in some ways, but tech aspects- do read to know that what was done, was right

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      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Let me explain and i did that already to the customer( this is for others who wish to avail our service)
      kmoh, this exactly is why I am putting up this review, so fellow members that avail your service will know what to expect and what to provide in the first place.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      I was alone and did not expect that the CRV was repainted at so many places- some panels had bad repaint with sanding marks. Doing the car was very tough as it had almost 4-5 repainted panels. In my excitement to deliver i thought i could handle alone, but i was wrong and exhaustion was evident. Added to that- the conditions were horrible with HUGE dust flying around. Considering this, i wish i could post pics of the finished panels which would indicate the quality of the finish delivered.
      I agree on the exhaustion part and I can understand too.... we should have settled for one car per day and taken it easy. I say "WE" because I was partially responsible too. In my excitement to get more done, I had indirectly put you under pressure, I believe.

      That said, I do not quiet agree that the CRV panels were that hard to work on. Why? because after you left, I had someone else work on the car and correct all these issues with ease. They had very similar products so it was not the equipment or the chemicals that made the difference, I believe it was the effort put in. this is where I think exhaustion came into play.

      I had also selected the place because it was well ventilated and shady (it was a portico). I do not think it was that big an issue because the other person I said worked under the same conditions and had no complaints.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      I had also mentioned that i HAD to leave by 3:30 but the FIgo came about 1.5 hours late. I was in a dilemma to refuse, but i think i made a mistake here cause i thought the customers friend would feel bad and agreed to do it also. I think i learnt that i should have been firm there and said no.
      I can understand this. The delay was because of my friend and also the fact that we expected a power cut that day to delay things, which did not happen. I did not want to send my friend back once he had traveled across the city for this. In fairness, he was quiet happy with the Figo and did not complain. It was me that was not too happy because I felt it could have been better.

      I am wondering (without under-estimating your skills or your customers knowledge), would I have been happier, were I not looking for a thorough job? I think yes... the panels were fine, and all the visible areas were done good more or less. What was lacking is the crevices and parts like spots on bumper, side cladding, etc.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Alloys- I did mention that i FORGOT the alloy cleaner at home in bangalore and gave the customer a discount for that having been missed. A mistake made and admitted
      You did and agreed on that front. I just mentioned this as this one minor oversight was spoiling the other work.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Bug Splatter- that needs a special treatment, does not get cleared in the normal process if its as hard as it was on the CRV, though a lot of it was cleared post claying.
      I disagree on this part. All it needed was soaking up and I was able to clear the bug splatters with ease. I did this with normal water and microfiber, no special agents used.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Time- It took over 4 hours on the CRV, not as mentioned 2 hours with breaks.
      Noted. I was talking about only the cutting process, not the entire effort, which could be 4 hours easily.


      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      M105 is used the way i did, its not required to pour large amounts - experts around the world will tell the same. It revives once the pad is saturated and sprayed with water. Its a high cutting compound and does not need reapplication after the pad is saturated

      Sealant- None in the world of pro detailing will say they do wax over a sealant, its a total waste. The expectation of having wax over sealant was out of place. Enough sealant was applied, sadly i did not anticipate else before and after pics of the panels done would have conveyed the finish quality. A THIN LAYER is what is recommended of ANY WAX and sealant- as only that much will bond to the paint( tech detail that one can check with any site/experienced detailer)
      I will leave this to the experts as I am not an expert in this area. I'd be very thankful if people like harrie can comment...

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Plastics: We DO NOT do the plastics in the basic package, its printed and to compensate for a few lapses( purely due to physical limitations) i did the figo plastics very carefully - even the front grille- those pics should have been posted too, right? The CRV side plastics were done PROPERLY- again pics not taken so cannot prove that.
      Don't get me wrong, I was not in a mood to take pics when the Figo was done, that's why no pics here. Also, when you charge 6.5K, I expected these to be taken care of, again, my mistake for assuming that plastics were covered. If you want to consider this in the long run, I still believe your rates being higher than other service providers, it would be expected that you cover all these areas than offer an ala carte service and add more for alloys, plastics, etc. You can may be leave out interiors as that is acceptable as a separate package. That's just my suggestion....

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Agreed some parts looked bland- these plastics were extremely worn out and faded and needed more attention and time which i had sadly run out of- again something that was circumstantial but yes could have been better
      I disagree on this again... the car was not too old and CRV plastics are not bad really. I do not think it was worn out or faded... the car was parked in a garage mostly and not quiet abused. I agree on the time part... no further arguments on that

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Running Board: The area i was being asked to run it on was lower part of the running board- dirty with road mud- well to be honest, we have never run a compound on the lower running board. Anyways the car was expected to be washed and cleaned before we start our work- standard procedure we follow
      Not the lower part, but the part that's visible, just below the doors. The lower part has the sound deadner and the rough finish anyway that cannot be worked on. The car was washed but this part was dirty, I agree. Normally detailers show a bit of consideration for items like these and I will not blame you for not extending that to me.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Figo Bumper If i run a cutting compound to no end PAINT WILL COME OUT and that is the reason one has to stop. 95% of the paint marks had GONE and i pointed out to ANOTHER area in the rear bumper where i removed the marks, that is not mentioned. Bumper paints are very thin compared to the body- a well known fact in most cars.
      Well, I had the same part corrected and ALL the white marks removed by the one who did the follow-up work which led me to that comment. When it was a question of the part being painted anyway, I feel you should have just gone aggressive (as the danger of burning through the paint layer is not really that critical here - the part will be repainted anyway!). This is where experience comes into play.... you can make a decision based on that.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      I offered a FULL REFUND on one of the cars when i got to know this feedback via PM from the customer and even apologized for the few lapses. It was a mistake at my end to expect me to be able to do 100% for Both cars alone in a single day considering the conditions i operated in( huge dust, wind), that is the reason for a few things left out and nothing else. I also had planned to offer a discount on a few items the customer wanted to pick up but i did not get that chance at all to compensate for not giving 100%.
      True to your word, you offered a refund and I refused it in good faith. I do not think the work was bad enough to warrant a refund and I am just pointing out to the lapses so you can correct them. Also as a pointer to anyone that avails your services, to be aware of what to provide and what to expect. I am yet to get the stuff from your friend that I agreed to pick up, you can still give me a discount on that , which will be accepted gladly as I had given you referrals.

      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      All in all as i said, sad that it turned out this way, many learnings for me too. This in NO WAY reflects on what Team UD delivers or is capable of, an off day purely due to situations( happens with the best in the world)
      I will take your word on that. No need to be sad, no one feels left down or cheated here, it was just a deed done in good faith from both ends that did not quiet work out the way we expected. All of us are here to learn and as long as we have done that and take corrective actions, I'd be happy.

      If you are sport, I can even setup a friendly competition between Team UD and Paintdoctors (the other agency that I had been happy with, hope they are sport too) with similar cars in Coimbatore when you come down next. Don't worry, we have enough cars to work on for next time

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      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      Yep, and I said that a totally unexpected turn of events, overall I wish I could offer a treatment for another of your cars to give you the complete "ultimate experience"
      Hope that happens sometime maybe with your repainted lancer
      Could not physically handle the load in those conditions for which I felt really bad, anyways hope can make it up in some ways, but tech aspects- do read to know that what was done, was right
      Appreciate that! I am sure you will make it up to me next time.

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      CRV Panels were repainted- what work was pending on that for which another person had to work on them again? I thought that it was NOT the paint correction that needed some rework? And once 95% of the work has gone in, easy for another person to come in and complete it even if that was the case. I forgot to mention BTW- there was a finishing polish that was applied but for that you were not around.
      None in the country is probably using what we are using in total( cause of the cost of the stuff we get), and the premium quality of products used can be validated by an expert. There are ample posts on autogeek to check what i have mentioned( and other detailing forums around the world). Its not fair to question the amount of product used etc cause that directly points to the intent of the person doing the work( if they are cutting corners on the product amount) but please go ahead and check it out with anyone.

      Bumper was NOT repainted- thin paint and its again the same case, when 90% of the work is done, completing the rest is not that tough.
      The same for bug splatter also but maybe i can take it that it needed more attention to clear bug splatter and will not say anything on that and accept the miss
      Plastics Its not abused etc- when nothing is applied to plastics over a period of time, they just fade away. When you apply 2-3 coats of plastic protectant and still they are faded, needs just maybe 1 more layer and you can see them back, again 10% extra makes a big difference many times and its that 10% extra that i could not deliver

      Conditions- i wish someone else could validate that- morning till 11AM was fine- post that all my stuff was flying around and i did clearly say that this is horrible as so much wind and with that dust is sure to come. "Other person" maybe used to this since he lives and expects that. With 2.5 sides open to air, and with high winds, became a nightmare to work post noon.

      As for friendly competition- i don't know whats there to achieve with that cause we are in NO competition to anyone at all. If the said vendor is delivering great work, fantastic- good luck to them and we are all the more happy to see people who like to care get what they want, nothing else.

      I don't think there is anything to achieve with that and for a proper "competition" i need the full team with me- which is me and nirmal and which is not going to happen as you are in coimbatore and i come there ONLY for personal work.
      I thank you for the feedback again and surely some points we have taken into note and immediately put into action, i think you have a very good eye for detail and are very very particular which is good indeed

      I think there is nothing that will come out now going back and forth on our posts and i rest my case here with no need to go on with this topic as you have your own conclusions and i have mine- overall as i put it, there is nothing what can be done than move on. If you come to bangalore, we will be happy to give you the service we deliver and are capable of and at a discounted rate. And yes for the products which are there with my friend, i will offer a discount, as a favour he is holding them for you for a while so please take them as per his convenience

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      kmoh , it was not really that easy for the next person to correct a few issues, but like you rightly said, I will leave this here. For your benefit and the others that are reading this thread, I am am putting up pics of the car after paintdoctors were done working on it. Let them speak....

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      Quote Originally Posted by kmoh View Post
      for the products which are there with my friend, i will offer a discount, as a favour he is holding them for you for a while so please take them as per his convenience
      I understand that and we had already tried to meet up twice, first time he had a change of plan and the second time I had a visitor and had to cancel. If you can send me a text of how much I am supposed to pay, I will be happy to pay him and receive the stuff. Cheers!

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      Hi Quicksilver,

      I have been reading this thread quietly since you have started it & am commenting now since what you keep on insisting to post & counter Mohsin on point after point seems to be hitting below the belt now & going beyond limits of positive feedback.

      Mohsin & me take our detailing seriously & Mohsin since he was alone was surely working with a handicap. He has clearly explained the reasons & shortcomings, though minor are taken by us & we will surely improve. Points like usage of compound & sealant are what we benchmark with the best in the US & are optimally used. Hence the comment of 3rd parties not educated about detailing are to be doubted.

      Comparing our work to some paint doctor or whatever does not shake our confidence in our offerings nor make us doubt our quality. Not sure though what is your ulterior motive if any in bringing up a comparison ? By the way we are Ultimate Detailerz, not Ultimate car detailers as you have stated !!

      Granted that we may not be perfect, we have admitted the same. If however you still feel that you are not satisfied, and are expressing it by posting again & again, we can discuss a refund of the amount involved. We stand by our work & wish to clarify to all members reading this thread that customer satisfaction is what we believe in, owning cars ourselves & not running a commercial outfit.
      We also do it for the passion & fun behind it, as others who have taken our services in Blore have witnessed first hand.

      This whole thread & intention behind creating it is leaving a bitter taste in our mouth.
      Last edited by nirmaljusdoit; 11th Aug 2011 at 23:23.

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