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    Thread: The same old confusion, safari or scorpio with Duster making it tougher !

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      The same old confusion, safari or scorpio with Duster making it tougher !

      Hello Gearheads!
      Really need your views and perception.
      As many of you are aware about my Fiesta going in a total loss, I finally have settled the issue with insurance guys and expecting something around 6 lacs.
      They cheque is supposed to be given to me by Bajaj allianz in 6 days after the final acceptance of their quoted loss amount by me.

      Now the hunt began for me.
      This time with my concern over safety features and an inclination towards the SUV body types, I decided to explore it as an option.

      So here it goes!

      Fiesta being a complete handler and a driver's delight had been my ride for around 9 months. The only feature missing was an ABS [I feel to be a must now] and the airbags.
      I don't know if I need to relate it as my prayers being heard or my confusion being darkened that just three days back in the amidst of all these test drives of the SUVs, Fiesta Classic Titanium was launched with both the features I always contemplated in my tuned Fiesta with nice looking beige interiors, electrically adjusted ORVMs and alloys, that too at a 9 lacs OTR. It is looking a complete VFM and I am sure I would go for it in the end, in case this SUV thing doesn't works on for me.

      The SUVs under comparison:

      Full Black Safari VX priced at 13.65 lacs OTR, a whooping 1.4 lacs above its own gx which has ABS, and lacks from the VX only in terms of dual air bags, that screen in the headrest [Useless for me as I am the only one to be driving the car] and the reverse camera with its display in the IRVM. Now somehow its unsettling to know that the Scorpio VLX with air bag model costs only 21k more than the exact vlx without airbag. Its annoying as this clearly states that TATA wants those two good for nothing features to be worth 1.2 lacs and alas not to forget that tan colored leather in the VX in between the seats unlike the GX which has fabric. [hardly noticeable]

      Anyway the ultimate test: A Test Drive!

      I was given a VX with 20k on the odo.
      Coming on the experience, there was a significant turbo lag, but after the turbo kicked in it was a pulling like a locomotive with a very torquey feeling. revved it hard and managed 80km/hr in 2nd gear and 120 km/hr max in the third gear, however had to brake then as it was crowded enough to be driving a two tone truck like a maniac.

      I was totally blown by the performance and frankly speaking, it handled quite well, though there weren't any corners to take but still after being a Fiesta owner, I could say the handling was quite impressive, the breaking with ABS was efficient as well and quite a less body roll unlike what I kept reading on team bhp etc.
      I could certainly rate it in terms of power and performance at par with my best buddy's fortuner I drive BUT...That's the only department it can be compared with a fortuner.
      As I came out of my driving fun and nirvana those 140 horses were giving me and that happiness that indeed a Safari lived upto its road image and name, I started noticing that brake liner was making some noise on each press of the brake pedal, the clutch went hard with only 20k on the odo as well as the power steering felt jammed while taking a complete U.

      Thoughts like "okay that's why they say safari suffers with niggles" started growing over me.
      The sales guy tried to convince me over the fact that it is a TD vehicle therefore abused a lot hence these issues are there. A new one won't have them.
      Still I had it running at the back of my mind that it must be a pricey one to maintain.

      However in the battle of heart Vs Mind
      Safari got 10/10 with that pulling power and performance. [Something a diesel lover and those who appreciate that gushing torque can understand]

      Pearl White SCORPIO: The optin I am considering is a VLX with air bag costing 11.97 lacs on the road, and greatly the owner of the showroom happens to my dad's professional connection and therefore is offering a further discount of 40k, hence it is 11.57 lacs OTR for me.

      Since my desire to own an SUV started with the scorpio and its clear butch looks, I had high respect already for the mighty scorpio with flowing images of mighty scorpio from the team bhp's scorpio ownership forum, all those trips to ladhakh etc.
      In fact I considered it to be a better looking SUV than safari regardless of the safari's more powerful road image. I had my own plans of installing fat maxxis ma-s1 marauders [275/60 R17] on it with full machined black alloys with a pets box, blistein suspensions, a K and N filter. Felt it would be a perfect pearl white scorpio but it all was before I test drove it and took it on the reviews of the team bhp and other forum guys.

      TEST DRIVE: Due to the connection part, I got a new vehicle with just 40k on the odo to test drive. It was a top line VLX. Fit and finish was at par and even more neat than safari and it had a better looking dashboard however with lesser driver ergonomics, maybe due to the tall stance and more vertical seating and lack of seat height adjustment feature.
      Also cramped middle row seats and certainly lacked that grand feeling which the safari interiors offer in the first gaze [this might change after a more careful gaze due to more lower quality plastic in the safari]
      Anyway, I went to the driver's seat where I am going to be always. With lesser adjustments, it was quite difficult to achieve the best driving position and even with 5"11 height, I was required to pull the seats more than what I normally do in other cars, maybe that deep clutch was to be blamed.
      Finally, a rev on the pedal, and my GOD, is it an SUV or a petrol hatch!
      SO refined and peppy and eager to pounce. It felt really very light and there was no feeling at all of pulling a 2 tone monster. Must say that Mahindra has done a commendable job but unfortunately I am not a lover of these peppy eager vehicle having the tendency to jump rather like that initial silence of the turbo as in a swift, safari or the mighty crude. Hence it couldn't please me at all. Infact was less inspiring

      However, since it was an open street, I slammed the throttle only to realize that engine went breathless in the second gear at 60 and then again on the third at 100. No feeling of that powerful turbo spooling up and giving that rush of torque rather a more linear and smooth peppy ride. Something which the petrol heads crave for but not a diesel lover like me. A disappointment !
      Somehow I managed 120 in it as well but again to realize it was not as stable as Safari and that too when it was a new vehicle and the safari I tested had 20k kms of abuses to it.
      Somehow there wasn't any rush of torque rather a more refined linear torque.

      Safari clearly won it for me.

      Now the confusion which keeps hitting me is that have I missed something while assessing as so many people rate the scorp engine a bliss and safari's to be a slouch one !
      How is it possible for scorp to be faster than that monstrous torquey safari as is written at so many places


      I want the gearheads to clear my dilemma.
      As my understanding of performance clearly goes back to a petted and a non petted Fiesta.
      The petted one was better in all the departments like the initially peppiness, larger torque gushing through the veins and more powerful feeling. This altogether called for a better performance in total.

      Now just with that peppiness and engine getting breathless so soon, how can scorp's engine establish itself as a better performer ?
      Please I need explanation from more enthusiastic drivers.

      For me the difference was like between a chevrolet beat diesel and a swift diesel.
      With beat being the scorp and safari the swift.
      The beat is so peppy but loses all its breath so soon. And the swift with al that turbo lag, like the silence before the storm and then that adrenaline inspiring torque and that pulling capacity in each gear.

      I mean I can never even think of scorp being close to fortune in that gushing power but safari was almost there with similar in-gear top speed figures.

      Gearheads! Please help in this dilemma.

      I said dilemma as the scorp is costing almost two lacs lesser, has higher resale, lesser niggles but still lost in that heart battle.

      What should I do.

      Yet to test drive a duster but somehow duster maybe a better handler, a better performer and in fact in can be everything but not safari

      Unable to decide and y mind is swinging again and again to go and buy my old loved Fiesta with all these new safety gizmos.
      A very important thing to mention, O have the blistein suspension upgrades planned for what ever I buy, Safari or the scorpio.
      Also the tuning box and K and N is planned with that broad 275/55 R17 wheels.
      SO with all these mods, which is going to be a better performer. Will these add ons make scorpio at par in torque and power to safari, but again then the safari will get at par to Endeavour with these
      Last edited by Asfar Rizvi; 21st Jul 2012 at 01:25.

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      Duster pleased me in its looks and lands right in between safari and the scorpio t 12.5 lacks for the top line model.
      It had everything like better reviews in the handling department, faster 0-100 figures than both the safari and the scorpio and better quality interiors but somehow it still couldn't convince me to go and spend 12.5l acs over it. Don't know why.
      Still I am having a test drive of it tomorrow.

      Till then guys please tell me that what went wrong in my assessment that I ended up comparing the mighty and the muscular scorpio I craved for 10 days to a puny beat diesel. But believe me it was like the same.
      I really felt that my daily route which is 80% of the National Highway will not embrace it as a powerful SUV but an unsettled eager to jump and once there goes breathless kind of hatch.

      And safari, as expected lived upto its power image with lots of inspiring confidence and feel that I call rule the highway with enough power under my tap in a mighty Black Safari. It had the overall feeling of a powerful vehicle and no regrets of having lesser horses than the endeavor or the fortuner.

      But again that extra 2 lacs over scorpio and even on its own VFM GX for air bags which I really want this time and those horror stories of heavy niggles in safari is making me think again and again.
      There is an AMC plan in it for two years at 7k which will cover even the maintenance cost entirely but again it will at least cost me time and energy to visit tata ASS again and again in case something goes wrong.

      Guys what should I do ?

      Fiesta with just a tag of 9 lacs and those so neat and tidy looking beige interiors, quality of plastics inside is tempting me every time due to this confusion. Also considering my driving patter of no off roaring involved its asking to reconsider it again. I still have my K and N filter, the dieseltronic TB and my Yoko S drives with 15 inch alloys saved from the accident and calling for the right place to be fitted again. [Maybe a new Classic Titanium]
      Last edited by Asfar Rizvi; 21st Jul 2012 at 01:49.

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      Asfar Rizvi : Not sure where you read that Safari engine to be slouch compared to Scorpio's, but it is 140bhp of Safari vs 120bhp of Scorpio.

      Both vehicles are good ; if you start a score sheet they might end up evening themselves out eventually; so it boils down to your need and perception.

      I found Safari to be the right fit (GX 4x4; did not feel VX was worth the price asked when looking from GX).

      As for upgrades, tuning chip in hand, K&N filter to be brought (got scammed by a rogue vendor in Ebay last week from whom I had ordered this!!!) Will be running them on my vacation trip to Goa from Palaghat.

      Got few other mods in pipe line (long term).

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wheels View Post
      Both vehicles are good ; if you start a score sheet they might end up evening themselves out eventually; so it boils down to your need and perception.
      Are you sure wheels that scorpio on a head to head run [ 0-100 and top speed plus max speeds in each gear] will score parallel to safari as I didn't feel scorpio to be anywhere close.
      I mean it might get close to safari in stop and then go 0-100 dash for the same reason that petrol with peppier engine and torque and power spooling right from the beginning scores over a diesel with its turbo kicking much late. But again on actual road conditions where you can manage to keep safari at 1.8k and above rpm, I felt scorpio will just bite the dust!


      Quote Originally Posted by Wheels View Post
      As for upgrades, tuning chip in hand, K&N filter to be brought (got scammed by a rogue vendor in Ebay last week from whom I had ordered this!!!) Will be running them on my vacation trip to Goa from Palaghat.
      Which chip did you buy ?
      I heard dieseltronic from Racedynamics Bangalore has some excellent maps for safari. Its a TB worth 20k and I have used it in my Fiesta and found it to be a performer.

      ABout 4*4, I guess I don't need it as I am not an off road enthusiast and even a 2*2 safari can do justice to my little fun filled short off road trip which I may have in case I get an SUV.
      But still GX is much more VFM. Only that airbag is compelling me to go for VX as I met with an accident just 22 days back and now want to go safe.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wheels View Post
      I found Safari to be the right fit
      By the way wheels how is your experience with the maintenance part of the safari ?
      I am asking this as I was getting a April 2011 used VX with 21000 mms on the odo with quite impressive looking well maintained exteriors and interiors, don't know of the engine as didn't drive it at a price of 10.2 lacs.

      I though it to be a VFM but got skeptical owing to my experience of the TD vehicle back in Tata which again had 20k on the odo but was looking to be having lots of issue with the clutch, brake liner and the steering.

      Just had a feeling that a not so well maintained safari can cause much more problems than an equally ill-treated scorpio.
      What is your call on it ?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      Are you sure wheels that scorpio on a head to head run
      I was referring to features vs benefits vs whatever buying decisions being gauged against, not the head run.

      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      Which chip did you buy ?
      RaceChip Pro.

      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      Only that airbag is compelling me to go for VX
      Wanted to go in for that only, but tagging up by more than a lac, which then has it effects on on road price, just didn't cut it. Hopefully, I never get to regret it and the seat belt, which is worn religiously, is able to help, in case something happens.

      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      maintenance part of the safari ?
      Been doing the regular 5k service. Never had any of the issues that people keep cribbing about. Touch wood, hope it remains so.

      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      Just had a feeling that a not so well maintained safari can cause much more problems than an equally ill-treated scorpio.
      Any vehicle ill-treated will bite you back. For us, we also have the monkeys that usually are found in the guise of mechanics at the authorized centers who are worse than the bribe taking government officials. It is a tough call managing all these.
      As I said, I drive the vehicle carefully, no not pampered, but carefully. I do fly over the small speed breakers and usually not bothered with bad roads, but I definitely do not abuse the vehicle. And during the time of service, I have had the luxury of being able to stand right besides it and get the work done well; also gave me a good rapport with the mechanic, who ensured that I was kept happy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      How is it possible for scorp to be faster than that monstrous torquey safari as is written at so many places
      There should not be much difference in the pickup, though Scorpio's websites says it can do 0-100 in 14.8 Seconds However, I did this in 14 seconds with my Safari (with tank-full of Diesel)

      Why don’t you go back and test drive both vehicles again and do a test drive for 30-40 kms (city and Highway) to get more impression about both vehicles.

      You can also refer to the chart in the below thread -

      Power to Weight Ratio of Indian Cars


      Here is my try on 0 to 100 Kmph




      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      But again that extra 2 lacs over scorpio and even on its own VFM GX for air bags which I really want this time and those horror stories of heavy niggles in safari is making me think again and again.
      If you are okay with 2WD option, I would suggest go for GX Variant which is more VFM. My Safari has done over 43,000 Km in 19 months and have faced any issues.

      But, changing tyre is big Pain in the ****.


      Quote Originally Posted by Asfar Rizvi View Post
      By the way wheels how is your experience with the maintenance part of the safari ?
      Because my daily running is high, I get my truck services after every 7500 Km (Oil / Oil filter / Wheel rotation and balancing) and bill comes out around Rs 4000/-. IMO, spare parts are not that expensive if you compare to the size and price of Safari.

      Recently, I changed brake pads at 39,000 Km and pads were for Rs 3400. Although, pads still had 25% of life remaining and it could have done another 3000 to 4000 Km?

      Before Safari, I had Tata Indigo which I used for over 4.5 years and I know a couple of TASS very well so never faced any issues with them.
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      Highly suggest that you go in for the Safari ( I am definitely partial to it as i love mine). Safari + spider tuning box = Simle on face + WTF look from other cars when you just fly past them..... NUFF said!!

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      There are rumors coming in from many 'confirmed sources' that a Scorpio facelift is expected this Diwali. Keep that in mind, while you decide.

      Also, I'd say go for the Safari. The vehicle looks great, performs well, and TATA ASS shouldn't be any trouble.

      You're pretty right that these 2 vehicles are very neck to neck on paper; but since you say you'd be riding solo mostly, the extra seating in the Scorpio makes no sense for you.
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      Quote Originally Posted by anubhavt View Post
      Here is my try on 0 to 100 Kmph
      Seems like a great run.
      I guess tata should use this to depict the performance of the Safari

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