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    Thread: Go specialist and go alone, that's the new mantra of Fiat for India.

    1. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by gonugupta View Post
      niche market but could not succeed due to branding and lack of confidence in buyers. I afraid if Abarth would meet same fate as T-Jet...
      Yes, this "niche market" in India is very different ... IMHO, You would need good product, strong service base, branding and customer's confidence. Anyone of these 4 is missing .. you might struggle in the bracket.

      Some of the products which failed in that "niche market" -

      Skoda Yeti - Good Product, brand and customer's confidence. However, lacks on service center and super expensive spare parts
      Renault Fluence - Good Product but lacks on rest 3
      Tata Aria - Good Product, strong service base, branding but lacks on customer's confidence to spend 14+ lac on Tata

      Now, even Chevy Cruz is struggling against Hyundai Elentra for sales .. as Hyundai has all of the above points. And, Fiat ... which don't have anything, not sure how will they go into that market.
      Last edited by Ironhide; 27th Mar 2013 at 17:34.
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    2. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      Setting up the service centers followed by good service quality (necessary!) will bolster the faith.
      People buy a Maruti for its service, Hyundai for its bells & whistles, discard Ford & Fiat completely, buy a Polo for VW/German pedigree despite a 3-cylinder engine (yes it happens, talking about tier-2,3 cities).
      Service center will never be a show stopper, look at Skoda, everyone bitches about its poor ASS, but they still sell cars and same case with TATA. What they want is clear vision with set goals and not intermediate mitigation plan.

      Niche market products has thick margins but brand value is very important!!
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    3. #13

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      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      Service center will never be a show stopper
      With Maruti its the opposite. products sell because of Service quality. And I did mention about tier-2,3 cities where this makes all the difference. No one cares if your car makes 90 BHP, all that people worry about is good service quality. Skoda doesn't sell in those areas, nor does TATA for personal consumption.

      Consumer Perception, Brand value - how do you make it becomes unimportant if you can't sustain it.


      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      What they want is clear vision with set goals and not intermediate mitigation plan
      With a leaking boat in the middle of the ocean, you don't worry about maintenance plan at the port. You stop the leak and try to get to the port first!
      Last edited by Devil_in_Disguise; 27th Mar 2013 at 17:44.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      With Maruti its the opposite. products sell because of Service quality. And I did mention about tier-2,3 cities where this makes all the difference. No one cares if your car makes 90 BHP, all that people worry about is good service quality. Skoda doesn't sell in those areas, nor does TATA for personal consumption.
      I've had my own share of experience with Hyundai and Toyota service and they are not that great when compared to MSIL, however they still sell and so is TATA, its not the rural market which is driving the sales, major portion of the sales comes from Urban market. I don't understand why do we jump in to tier 2 & 3 cities when sales sucks in tier 1. Look at number of imports running in tier 2 & tier 3 cities, if service center is an issue will anyone buy it?

      MSIL has built a brand name over the years which keeps them running, though FIAT entered market before Hyundai & TATA they were unable to build that brand name which is what they need to focus.

      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      With a leaking boat in the middle of the ocean, you don't worry about maintenance plan at the port. You stop the leak and try to get to the port first!
      The current solution is no way going to fix leak, it will only aggravate the situation.
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    5. #15

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      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      they still sell and so is TATA, its not the rural market which is driving the sales, major portion of the sales comes from Urban market. I don't understand why do we jump in to tier 2 & 3 cities when sales sucks in tier 1
      I think I haven't been able to communicate properly what I mean. Sales do suck in Tier-1 cities because of known problems & issues. Sales suck in tier 2 & 3 because of consumer perception. Didn't say the product or service is better or worse. And where did I say rural area, please do point out? Any solid numbers on imports running on specific rural-urban divide, tier-1,2,3 divide, how many such cars bought in a tier-1 city and running in tier-2,3 etc. & rural areas would really make your case.


      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      though FIAT entered market before Hyundai & TATA they were unable to build that brand name which is what they need to focus
      You are absolutely right! Sell the product without reliability assurance, quality check, poor support network & you have a FIAT on hand Did Hyundai build a brand name while ignoring any of the three reasons I pointed out? Or for that matter some more reasons (points to self ignorance)?


      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      The current solution is no way going to fix leak, it will only aggravate the situation.
      Again, you are on the mark. But I think only half way. It'll be an incremental benefit. Evolution rather than revolution.

    6. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      And where did I say rural area, please do point out?
      How do you want to categorize Tier 2 and 3 cities? Rural?

      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      Any solid numbers on imports running on specific rural-urban divide, tier-1,2,3 divide, how many such cars bought in a tier-1 city and running in tier-2,3 etc. & rural areas would really make your case.
      Mercedes Benz sells more car in Coimbatore than any other city in South India and there are several other cities like Kholapur, Jodhpur where imports can be spotted.

      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      Did Hyundai build a brand name while ignoring any of the three reasons I pointed out? Or for that matter some more reasons (points to self ignorance)?
      In the initial days Hyundai had several issues, however they started fixing it to gain costumer confidence, one such thing was Accent CRDI which saw too many engine failures and same cases with Indica, later they came with V2 and fixed the niggles.

      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      It'll be an incremental benefit. Evolution rather than revolution.
      I will wait to see that incremental benefit
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    7. #17

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      I beg to differ the general perception here.

      IMHO having a product that meets the market/customer requirement with one or two strong selling point is more important than having good service or building a brand.

      If you have a product that is better than your competitors; more half the battle is won (and brand name would also be built). A technically good product sporting atrocious price tag (which would fail at market) won't build the brand name...not in India IMHO.

      Lets take some examples:

      1.Duster: Renault was an relatively unknown brand. Its products were failing. Then came the Duster. And now Renault is known by many people. Duster became a success because it had one or two very important USP : its size/SUV look, FE , diesel engine etc. I think Duster is helping Renault to build its brand, not the Renault brand is helping Duster to clock the sales.

      2. Skoda was an unknown identity in 2004. It launched Octavia (which was a class leading vehicle in many aspects at that time) and Octavia became an instant success. Did Skoda brand name helped Octavia or Octavia helped to built Skoda brand ?

      3.Hyundai came in 1998 and with the launch of Santro, took the market by storm. However, same company launched Getz some years later and blown away by Swift. Is it because MSIL brand is better than Getz. I don't think so.

      4. Lets take the case of Punto & Linea. Many believe that these two products were killed by Tata service. If Tata service is so bad then why at a time, Tata were selling Indica/Vista & Indigo/Manza around 5000 unit per month. And why now Tata are struggling the sell the above vehicles. Simply because, Vista & Manza were at a time good & competitive products. Thats why they were having success earlier. Now they are ageing and market has better competitors, so they (Vista/Manza) are struggling.

      What my point is,

      1. Service is important. But having a quality product with strong USP (be it VFM, feature rich, FE etc) is more important.

      People believe Honda/Toyota service is awesome and Tata is really poor. I like to think in a different way: Honda/Toyota make high quality product and they require minimalistic service support. On the other hand, Tata used to make bad quality product and hence they require more service support. Consequently their service department uses to be overly loaded with work.

      2. A good quality & successful product helps to create a good brand.

    8. #18

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      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      I will wait to see that incremental benefit
      Peace out brother. We all are waiting to see what happens next. My status does show I am not a fan boy either! No offence to those who are though.

      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      n the initial days Hyundai had several issues, however they started fixing it to gain costumer confidence, one such thing was Accent CRDI which saw too many engine failures and same cases with Indica, later they came with V2 and fixed the niggles.
      My statement was just supporting your point rather than contradicting it. Build a brand by doing the right thing. Hyundai and TATA did it as per your comment. FIAT is taking the chance now, maybe later than needed. It includes both product & service and at no point I am saying that either one can take complete precedence over the other.

      Quote Originally Posted by camchennai View Post
      Mercedes Benz sells more car in Coimbatore than any other city in South India and there are several other cities like Kholapur, Jodhpur where imports can be spotted
      I am from Rajasthan, have stayed in 3-4 cities including the capital. Was in Delhi for 2 years and stay in Noida since last 1 year. I am sure you also must have stayed in many cities or at least have an idea about them. Spotting the imports, sure. But weren't we talking about mass consumer products? Mercedes Benz is not the benchmark in that, at least not in India.

      Building a brand? As to what I read, Auto industry is an oligopoly. A good tutorial like this: Oligopoly explains in details what firms can or should do. Once you become visible to common man, then that also works in your favor as a psychological reinforcement.

      PS: I am just trying to discuss different points here. At no point do I intend to confront anyone
      Last edited by Devil_in_Disguise; 27th Mar 2013 at 20:46.

    9. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by sanguine View Post
      2. Skoda was an unknown identity in 2004.
      Small correction, SKODA came to India in 2001

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by Devil_in_Disguise View Post
      PS: I am just trying to discuss different points here. At no point do I intend to confront anyone
      Me too not trying to be a naysayer, wish FIAT had concentrated more in our market, they have some great brands, models and engines, since they were in India for a long time they had good opportunity to grow which they failed to capitalize.

      Wishing all success to them in this 3rd stint
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