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    Thread: Need to know G13BA or Esteem Carb ie 8 valve cam timing

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      Need to know G13BA or Esteem Carb ie 8 valve cam timing

      I just finished swapping my Zen's engine with a G13BA from the esteem. I need to install headers. To get the dimensions right I need to know the exhaust cam timing for the engine. I searched all over the net but cant find them. I need to know what is the degree at which the exhaust cam opens and closes. Can somebody help me out with this info?

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      mclaren1885's Avatar
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      Did you look at the workshop manual for the info?

      If not, you must download one & check if its given.

      Also try checking teamswift.net usually you find most details on Suzis there.

      Maybe techn0l0gist may know?
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      Quote Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
      Maybe techn0l0gist may know?
      No sir jee ! I don't really know this info - I don't quite remember seeing it the service manual too.

      A cheap way to check would be to check manually by turning the camshaft. wildwheels it might be helpful to all us folks if you could share some ideas on header design and how to do the calculations.

      Cheers,

      Amit

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      I only realized late that I posted in the wrong forum. Could the moderator please move this post to tech talk??

      Also regarding header design let me tell you I am no expert on cars. Im still learning and I learn things as and when I encounter a specific problem so I dont know everything about cars. It all started with doing a DOHC swap on my Lancer which I did on my own. I sourced everything from Japan and guided my mechanic to do everything using a workshop manual. Coming to headers I realized early that no one knew how to make headers everybody was only bothered about free flow bigger piper the better. No one actually has any calculations just assumptions.

      I stumbled upon a site which helped you get the dimensions but didn't tell you how to do them yourself. I spent a year trying to contact the site owner to give me this information. After a year I finally got a response from the site owners son letting me know that I wouldn't be getting a reply from him as his Dad had passed away a long time ago. But he did tell me that all the calculations are from Graham Bell's book regarding the same and that is the best way to go about it. Further research led me to the fact that everyone was using Graham Bells formula. I spent some time searching for the same and finally downloaded the same from the internet. To just let you know how so called tuners cheat customers let me give you two instances.

      The first tuner is a famous guy from Coimbatore who prepares INRC cars. I gave him the specs and asked him to build the header but I mentioned to him that if he felt his measurements are better he should probably use those AFTER CONVINCING ME WHY!!! However when I went to pick up the car the guy had fabricated a header alright. Definitely free flow but the car wouldn't climb inclines. Absolutely no low end or midrange.....You had to be on the gas and then would probably hit 140 in 3rd...He charged me 17000/- for the SPECIAL DESIGN!!! I told him I want it done as per my specs as what he gave me was absolutely crap...

      After having read Graham Bell's book. Let me tell you how does anybody build a header without knowing the cc, exhaust cam angles, compression ratio and the maximum rpm for torque and power to build a street and race header respectively. Somebody with good knowledge probably designed a good header for INRC cars which they are all copying and now are experts in the field....or even the INRC headers are pure crap. Anyway I got him to make the street spec headers according to my design and the car started to behave really well. But the pipes were much smaller in dia than any of the so called tuners use. They were very aprehensive about doing it and said it was my responsibility if anything went wrong. They just couldn't take it that the pipes were so small. Finally the guy making it who was tinker was convinced and I gavce him a copy of the calculations so that his school going son could teach him. Its not rocket since just simple high school math.

      I sold the car with the headers to a friend who again felt that a tuner in Bangalore would do a good job. Again without any engine spec whatsoever the guy designed a header that performed equally with first design in Coimbatore all noise but no go. The car now runs my headers and the guy is pretty happy with it.

      I have nothing against tuners but if they don't know something they should admit it or spend time learning about it instead of taking everyone for a ride. My first header from Coimbatore cost me 25000/- including fuel expenses for two trips... I am yet to see someone who does it right....My zen carb with the esteem block has been shaved .5mm bumping the compression to 9.5 and also has been grooved with Somendar Sing grooves. I need to know the exhaust cam angles to design a proper header for it. I may be wrong but my design has some math and logic rather than a vague cc figure deciding about the header. I guess if that were the case every 1300cc car needs to have the same set of headers!!! Also are they saying different cams all work with the same header dimensions....This is the first time Im voicing my protest but I guess the reason for this is ignorance on the part of owners who get headers for their cars.

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      Hhmmmm! I definitely find headers overrated. Not only are they unscientifically made, but being how expensive they are, they give you very little power gains.

      I've been saying it for a while now for those looking at making power. Either get a ECU+cam for decent bump in power. For more power, go high comp pistons. Never shave the head/block for you can never go back to stock.

      Just don't see a point in wasting 20k in intake & exhaust mods. And never let the tuners port & polish your engine.

      I think your best bet would be to contact superfy on teamswift.net he should be able to give you the figures if it's not listed in the workshop manual.

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      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - The Torque Monster.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - A 400+HP corner craving machine!
      2013 BMW X1 - The RWD Sideways Machine
      2019 Polo GT TSI - The Commute Workhorse.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Tuning - Importers for Audiofrog & Arc Audio/APR Tuning Authorized Dealers/Engine Remap Specialists for all makes/models.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Eton/Stetcom/Tru Technology/Blam Audio/Mobridge/Stetsom/Audible Physics/AIV/Gladen/Dampmat/Dr Artex Damping and more.

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      dont have a clue...i guess its not too hard to plot angles...good luck finding them and post those values here if you do.

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      The best way to go would be to get the cam shaft out and measure the angles yourself. Because there will always be a difference in the advertised duration ( which if my memory serves right is for 0.3 inches of lift ) and the actual duration ( which is for 0.5 inches of lift ).

      Fix a pro circle on one end of the cam shaft, mount it between centres and place a dial gauge on top. Centres and dial gauges should be available in most imdustrial supply stores ( Oriental Hardwares in Cbe ).

      I use graham bell's formula. What I think people here do is go by the " shorter for more power " & "longer for torque" mantra. Get the stock headers out, make the new ones one or two size stouter and a couple of inches shorter for "RACE" spec and a couple of inches smaller for "STREET" spec

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      I did try contacting superfy but no response. Harrie first time Im coming across someone wbo uses Graham Bells formula. How many exhausts have you made and which cars? How do they compare with the exhausts that tuners make. I actually gave a copy of the exhaust design to Bhai's brother in Coimbatore when he did my exhaust last time. Im currently using the zens exhaust with the esteem and it seems to be choking a bit
      Last edited by shishirbn; 2nd Jan 2012 at 17:26. Reason: Merging post...Back to back post..Please use multiquote and deleting the duplicate post

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