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    Thread: My DIY individual throttle bodies setup.

    1. #1
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      Lightbulb My DIY individual throttle bodies setup.

      I've made plans in the past. Plans for everything. And I usually follow up with them come hell or high seas. This was one of them; having a fast car without any ******** or any politics around it. The plan was made over a year ago when I bought this Honda City. Didn't know anything about cars back then, much less about the possibilities with a proper Honda.

      And the plan was to have a fast car that could go around corners, and well. So the first priority was to change the car's character from that of a boat to a proper performance sedan. The suspension was overhauled with revalved OE dampers and Eibach springs. The exhaust was pretty much shot, so decided to go in for an FFE. The springs were sourced from Four Seasons, Mumbai, and the FFE, dampers and labour was done through Viper. The experience with FS was troubled, to say the least. When you promise delivery of X item on Y date, you better ****ing deliver it on time. Don't waste anyone's time when they are ready with cash in hand.

      OTOH, the experience with Viper was not only extremely pleasant but enlightening as well. I don't care how some of you think he's not a real tuner or whatever, he knows enough to do a good job and handle his customers well. The work was done perfectly through his friend and I was heading home with satisfaction in my mind. Then came the thoughts of going further and pushing the car to what it was capable of. I was never a sucker for FI, most of the jobs I've seen have way too much turbo lag to be taken seriously. They're undrivable and dangerous usually. And besides, I didn't have the money to do a proper FI job myself. Don't trust the "tuners", never will. The scene needs a proper refresh before it can progress, with everyone bickering about everyone else. Gee, you'd think they all came out from the same mould/pair of legs?

      NA power appealed to me. Clean, high-revving screamers putting out linear power sounding much more fun to me. So then came the idea of doing an ITB setup. Few people have done this kind of work in the country, which just became extra motivation to do the job WELL. The research phase lasted for about 3 months which involved reading well into the mornings, gallons of coffee and putting the rest of my life on cruise-control. Then came the design phase which involved calculations, CAD drawings, calls to certain people and late nighters. Perhaps the most exciting time in this journey.

      Every millimetre of metalwork and every single bolt was picked by me, and usually for a good reason. And right from each bolt to every piece of silicone was put together by me and bolted on to the car. The work I was doing was not a bolt-on in any way, so there were constant disappointments when I found out that X equipment would not work with Y unless everything lined up perfectly, so everything had to be decided keeping the rest of the stuff in mind.

      A small reward came in the form of the first crankstart after the ITBs were bolted on. The car cranked immediately and sounded "nice". That was a little less than 2 months ago. Then came the ghosts which picked the worst time to show up. First, a mechanic that was supposed to help me by watching for leaks and other problems decided to put his full weight on the radiator top and broke the plastic housing. Then he ****ed up the steering lock/ignition system while I was not around. Decided I had gone through enough and got my car towed to my neighborhood where I could call another mechanic friend to watch over whenever I needed him. Finally finished all the work there and do a testdrive. As usual, the car cranked immediately but I could hear a vacuum leak from somewhere. So decided to open up everything and do it with one thing in mind - to make sure none of this would be opened up again unless it was for an upgrade. The air filter setup was designed by me during that time and it would bolt right into the ITBs themselves with enough place for 4 velocity stacks to go. It was all finally done and the car was driven around for some time. No vacuum leak, awesome response and a great sounding engine. Couldn't get any mapping done since I somehow got a job during the exact period and time was a scarcity. Then my distributor decided to pack up.

      So there you have a proper log of what I've been through in the last few months. I'm still busy looking for either a whole distributor or an ignition coil since I have some free time right now. People either don't have it or decide to charge exhorbitant amounts just because of the scarcity of these things. I've contacted my few mechanic friends enquiring and pestering, but to no avail. I will therefore be ordering one from outside India today or tomorrow. Let's see how that goes.

      For now, here's my setup:
      Engine:
      Honda D15B/D16Y8 mini-me configuration (stock from factory, this is what Honda has put in the Indian VTECs)
      Stock internals
      Honda D16Y8/Z6 camshaft with adjustable cam-gear.

      Honda P28 ECU chipped.
      Running eCtune Professional, previously CROME.
      Check
      eCtune - Home
      for the full feature list.

      Intake:
      Individual throttle bodies from a Honda CBR954RR
      Stock 954RR injectors (320cc flowtested, high impedance)
      Custom designed aluminium intake manifold, cut with a CNC machine.
      Custom-made velocity stacks with 45mm-57mm taper.

      Exhaust:
      4x2x1 MS headers with free-flow exhaust. Will be changed to something completely custom in the near future

      Suspension:
      Eibach Pro-Kit springs (lower and stiffer)
      OE dampers revalved (stiffer)

      Pics of the build are in my garage, with more to come whenever I have a camera with me. Have a nice set of ideas for the future with a possible FI job to go with the ITBs. Nothing in concrete though. Will be happy to answer whatever questions you guys might have.
      NA Power. Built, not bought.

    2. #2
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      Can you point us towards the sources you used to read up on this? Would like to learn a bit more about petrols
      Please subscribe to the #Cochin hashtag for notifications on the Cochin meets.

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      Honda | Acura Research, Reviews, Perfor ... a-Tech.com
      D-series.org
      Redirection

      Will clean out my bookmarks and post about 100 more links later
      It's all honda-specific stuff though. The principles could be applied to other engines, but they usually have their own set of technologies or buzzwords.
      NA Power. Built, not bought.

    4. #4
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      Hhhhmmm, thats some impressive DIY Pranav. I nearly went the ITB way, until I learnt that the intake manifold was too restrictive on the G16B and making a custom manifold would be a bit of a headache.. Hats off to your patience..

      What duration is the cam?

      With the ITB's any variation in the idling of the car?
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
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      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
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      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - A 400+HP corner craving machine!
      2013 BMW X1 - The RWD Sideways Machine
      2019 Polo GT TSI - The Commute Workhorse.
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    5. #5
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      Running the stock cam for now, will be switching to my Honda D16Y8 cam sometime in the future when the engine is opened up for head work. Still lots of research to be done on porting heads. The main problem with spending good money on an aftermarket cam is that I'm planning to do an FI setup to go with the ITBs, so will either have to go with a custom cam or one that suits the setup I'm planning to have. Idling is as good as stock, a little faster, because I'm running an IACV, not just opened throttles.

      Getting a custom manifold was easy for me, just had to do a CAD drawing and give it to a friend who owns a CNC wirecut machine. A day later, I had the flange. 2 days later, proper aluminium couplers to go from D-shaped ports to a perfect circle where pipes were welded.

      The manifold will be changed when the headwork is done, so I've been refining my flange and manifold design to be ready whenever that happens. As it is, going FI will require a plenum-style manifold, unlike what I've done right now.
      NA Power. Built, not bought.

    6. #6
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      mclaren1885's Avatar
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      Hhhhmmm, setting up ITB's with a FI setup could be a PITA.

      Also, which version of the ECU chip are you using? The Pro?
      2002 Tata Indica DLS.
      2004 Suzuki Zen - A G13B eater.
      2005 Suzuki Baleno - India's fastest Naturally Aspirated Baleno timed on a drag strip officially!
      2008 Suzuki Swift VDi - The Rattle King.
      2011 Chevrolet Cruze - The Torque Monster.
      2016 Ford Ecosport 1.5 TDCi Titanium - The SQ Machine in the making.
      2017 Skoda Octavia VRS - A 400+HP corner craving machine!
      2013 BMW X1 - The RWD Sideways Machine
      2019 Polo GT TSI - The Commute Workhorse.
      2014 MOC SQ Pro Champions.
      Harmonixx Tuning - Importers for Audiofrog & Arc Audio/APR Tuning Authorized Dealers/Engine Remap Specialists for all makes/models.
      Dealers for Rainbow/Mosconi/Eton/Stetcom/Tru Technology/Blam Audio/Mobridge/Stetsom/Audible Physics/AIV/Gladen/Dampmat/Dr Artex Damping and more.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by [url=http://gearheads.in/post12572.html#p12572
      mclaren1885 ยป Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:47 am[/url]]Hhhhmmm, setting up ITB's with a FI setup could be a PITA.
      It has been done quite a few times before, though not in India. If it wasn't a PITA, everybody would be roaming around in 600 bhp korean hatchbacks . Not something I will jump into without months of research though, let's see how it goes.

      Also, which version of the ECU chip are you using? The Pro?
      Oh, I'm using an ECU which allows me to change as many chips as I want. In place of a chip, I'm using a ROM Emulator (Moates Ostrich) which allows me to write data to it in real time. The tuning software for ignition/fuelling/features is eCtune Pro which uploads the data to the Ostrich which is connected to the ECU's EPROM socket using a ribbon cable. A second 4 pin header from the ECU connects to my laptop's USB port for datalogging of all sensors. Pretty much what Jitu/Ford ROCAM has done, just that he's using a Hondata chip with Hondata software and I'm using Moates Ostrich with eCtune.

      Have a look here:
      About/Features(Rom/Software)
      NA Power. Built, not bought.

    8. #8
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      IMHO, if you went through all this trouble for getting ITBs working, it would be a big step backwards to go FI. Stay NA and go for massive cams.

      ITBs make sense in a NA situation when getting proper intake flow matters a lot. In a FI situation, where you can simply ram air down the engine's throat, ITBs don't make sense. Sure, they will allow you to fine tune a lot and get it just purrrfect, but the gains from such tuning is overshadowed by a simple tweak to the wastegate to allow more boost.

      Just IMHO. I'm a fan of NA power too - my plans for the future go in a similar direction as yours, although not as hardcore as ITBs.

      Good work!
      Thou shalt always seek the redline.

    9. #9
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      So ITB's help in letting more fuel to the cylinder's ? & when coupled with high-lift cam shafts it works even better ?

    10. #10
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      No, ITBs allow the engine to breathe better. Actually, yeah, once you have more air in the cylinder, you can let in the extra fuel for bigger bangs.

      Normal intake manifolds have runners connected to a plenum. A throttle body is attached to the plenum. The geometry of the runners and plenum design dictate the amount of air an engine can get in a naturally aspirated situation and the torque curve. The RRC intake manifold in the Civic Type R is pretty much the peak of such a design (in the Honda world anyway). The injectors are fitted on the runners.

      You can get the manifold to breathe better by porting/polishing the plenums and the head, carving out specific geometry inside the plenum, putting on bigger throttle bodies etc.

      Or you could simply throw away the plenum and bolt a throttle body onto each intake runner. The advantage to such a design is that the potential air intake is quadrupled. You suddenly have 4x70mm (or w/e dia) air intake tracts instead of just one. You also gain the ability to adjust the fuel trims and tuning on each individual cylinder to a phenomenally fine degree.

      In the NA world, ITBs are pretty much the be all and end all of induction. The above mentioned RRC/RBC manifolds do come lot closer than any manifold has ever done and suddenly make the tech feel way too expensive, but for the engines that do not have such magic manifolds, ITBs are really up there. The downside is cost for custom fabrication and four throttle bodies. They are also very finicky and touchy to tune. Getting one properly tuned is an adventure in itself. The plenum was there for a reason y'know.

      Cam shafts control this whole dance. They dictate how long the valves stay open and thus how much time the manifold has to ram air into the cylinders. More air = more fuel = more power.

      If your intake system cannot supply a big cam the air it requires, you cannot inject the fuel you are supposed to be able to and it will not perform. Likewise, if your cam doesn't permit all that air from your trick ITB setup to actually enter the cylinders, you will not make power.

      P.S : ITBs also have a very characteristic intake noise. It makes me feel all tingly inside.

      P.P.S : Every M car BMW has ever made has had an ITB intake system.
      Thou shalt always seek the redline.

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